I don't need no proof

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-07-02 11:41am

This song sounds suspiciously like Creed sings it but on the radio there's this song where the singer basically says:

"I don't need no proof to know there's a heaven, all I do is look at my daughter, I don't need no proof because I just look at the sunset."

Something to that effect.

Essentially arguing that logical proof is unneccessary that its all about emotions and feeling. Now I recognize how ridiculous this sounds on an objective basis. Essentially saying that we don't need to prove God exists , we just KNOW. Kind of the final cop out of believers when they play on science's ball field. But maybe thats the point, the believers are at a homefield disadvantage because God is not a scientifically provable being.

The Shamans and priests of old did not so much prove that their gods existed in the scientific sense as much as they felt it.

The Saints in Catholic tradition interacted with God on a purely emotional/spiritual level and that cannot be quantified like anything science can do. In other words, believers who have been debating with scientists may be trying to prove something that cannot be measured or perceived by the philosophies and mechanics of science.

In the words of the Bard: "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in all your philosophies Horatio."

This is NOT an attack on science OR believers. It is a simple observation. BTW the song does suck much ass.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-07-02 11:44am

The song is by Live, and it's called, strangely enough, "Heaven".

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-07-02 11:46am

I know of no scientific method that can prove the existence of anything spiritual. The way I interpret it, God created both the physical universe and time, and so he exists outside of both, seeing time as a creation -- able to see all points therein, able to affect it, choosing not to, allowing free-will. As to those who say that God had no beginning, we necessarily think in terms of time, out of which God exists. Think we have as much ability to explain that as an aomeba has the ability to explain nuclear physics...

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-07-02 02:56pm

jegs2 wrote:I know of no scientific method that can prove the existence of anything spiritual....

As far as I know or have read, any attempt to prove something spiritual will get eventually get ridiculled and stopped.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-07-02 05:25pm

Stravo wrote: "I don't need no proof to know there's a heaven, all I do is look at my daughter, I don't need no proof because I just look at the sunset."

Strangely enough, these are the exact things which pantheism totes as why the universe is cool and no god is needed

Traceroute · Post by **Traceroute** » 2003-07-02 05:36pm

The problem is really when people try to override solid, objective science with spiritual explanations. Religion, sinced it's based on faith, is inherently irrational, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as religion isn't used to slap science around.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-07-02 07:11pm

I say take the Buddhist approach. Religion is, by definition, irrational. So stop trying to rationalize it.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-02 07:16pm

Traceroute wrote:The problem is really when people try to override solid, objective science with spiritual explanations. Religion, sinced it's based on faith, is inherently irrational, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as religion isn't used to slap science around.

You and Jegs2 summarized my position nicely.

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I don't need no proof

I don't need no proof

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