Suicide

[Dorsk 81]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

[CrimsonRaine]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

Okay. I think death is an "easy way out" and I'll explain why.

But first, death is not wrong. It's a fact of life. Once you're born, you're on a very long road that leads to death. Everyone and every living thing will go down this same path, even in different ways of understanding.

Now, suicide is an easy way out because it's the absolute disreguard for life and its challenges. I'm sorry to be so horribly cold, but if a kid is going to kill himself because he's being bullied, then he was pathetic in the first place. Maybe there was something else you didn't relate: mental instability, bipolar disorder, etc. However, everyone is bullied at some point in their life. Deal with it. It builds character and makes you stronger.

Killing yourself is probably the most selfish act I can think of. A suicidal person believes their life is so terrible that nothing will come along and make it better. It's an act of despair, and instead of dealing with the pain and finding methods to move on, they cut themselves, stick pistols in their mouths, overdose or the many other ways to put oneself out of their misery. However, as many types don't realize, many suicidal people have no idea how much more pain and hurt they can cause just by taking something away like that. Atheists, ignore this statement: God gave you life; cherish it; do something with it; nothing is ever bad enough that the only way out is death.

Now, I'm sure, there has been a point in most people's lives that we think: "Oh, someone, just turn everything off." Or: "This hurts too much. I just can't deal with it." Or even this horrible consideration: "Would anyone care if I died?" And finally: "I just want to die." We have bad thoughts, but rarely should we act on those negative ideas. In these moments of despair, emotion overtakes logic and reason and we cannot fathom anything else but what we're feeling. It's times like those that we should either find someone to talk to, or find something else that could relieve the pain. However, death is not a solution. It's cheap, and it shouldn't be anyone's choice to say, "Hey. Today's a good day to die."

Crimson Raine

[Kitsune]

In General, I believe suicide is wrong...
I do feel that peopel who have terminal illnesses have the right to chose when they dide though especially if the are in great pain

[Dorsk 81]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

Okay. I think death is an "easy way out" and I'll explain why.

But first, death is not wrong. It's a fact of life. Once you're born, you're on a very long road that leads to death. Everyone and every living thing will go down this same path, even in different ways of understanding.

I agree with you there, It is fact that everything dies, but why shouldn't it be your choice to shorten the road that leads to death? People don't choose life, it's thrust upon them. Seeing as they didn't choose to live, why should they also not be able to choose when they die?
I know most people have that choice taken away from them due to illness, accidents, etc, but why shouldn't you be able to choose when you end it if you can?

Now, suicide is an easy way out because it's the absolute disreguard for life and its challenges. I'm sorry to be so horribly cold, but if a kid is going to kill himself because he's being bullied, then he was pathetic in the first place. Maybe there was something else you didn't relate: mental instability, bipolar disorder, etc. However, everyone is bullied at some point in their life. Deal with it. It builds character and makes you stronger.

I don't think anything concerning his mental state was reported, if itwas, I didn't see it.
Yes to an extent it does build your character, but that can also be taken another way. If you were bullied to an extreme it could build you into someone with mental instabilities, i.e. paranoia.
I don't see how it is a disreguard for life. People make life out to be an extremely valuable thing that should be cherished. Why? A large number of people who say this are extremely hypocritical. Why should human life be valude and yet later they'll go down to McDonalds and eat the remains of another life?

Killing yourself is probably the most selfish act I can think of. A suicidal person believes their life is so terrible that nothing will come along and make it better. It's an act of despair, and instead of dealing with the pain and finding methods to move on, they cut themselves, stick pistols in their mouths, overdose or the many other ways to put oneself out of their misery. However, as many types don't realize, many suicidal people have no idea how much more pain and hurt they can cause just by taking something away like that. Atheists, ignore this statement: God gave you life; cherish it; do something with it; nothing is ever bad enough that the only way out is death.

What if a suicidal person was of complete sound mind? After weeks of going over it in their head they said "Hmm....ok, I don't see any point in living I think I'll stop." Firstly you'd probably question their mental state.
As an Atheist I do ingnore that stament as I don't believe in God.
Your Parents gave you life and you didn't have a say in it.

Now, I'm sure, there has been a point in most people's lives that we think: "Oh, someone, just turn everything off." Or: "This hurts too much. I just can't deal with it." Or even this horrible consideration: "Would anyone care if I died?" And finally: "I just want to die." We have bad thoughts, but rarely should we act on those negative ideas. In these moments of despair, emotion overtakes logic and reason and we cannot fathom anything else but what we're feeling. It's times like those that we should either find someone to talk to, or find something else that could relieve the pain. However, death is not a solution. It's cheap, and it shouldn't be anyone's choice to say, "Hey. Today's a good day to die."

Why should it not be anyones choice? It's your life not anyone elses.

[aerius]

It's the easy way out because hey, pull the trigger, jump off a bridge, and you have yourself a permanent escape from all your problems. Which is easy for you because you're now dead and don't have to deal with your problems anymore, but the thing is unless you're an unknown hermit you've just fucked up a lot of people's lives. And that is why it's wrong.

And for being bullied? Shit, I need to rant on this. Try being bullied, having the shit kicked out of you, the school turning a blind eye to it, and your parents believing and telling you the bullying is your fault, then get back to me. What, they called you bad names and pushed you around a bit? Wait'll they try to put your head through a drinking fountain, wait'll you get stabbed a couple times, wait'll you get gang tackled and beaten getting off the school when the fuckers rob you for your school field trip money. Until then, deal with your fucking problems, I went through all the above and worse and came out kicking. Yeah I might be a little fucked up but that's a small price to pay compared to being completely fucking dead.

[Dorsk 81]

It's the easy way out because hey, pull the trigger, jump off a bridge, and you have yourself a permanent escape from all your problems. Which is easy for you because you're now dead and don't have to deal with your problems anymore, but the thing is unless you're an unknown hermit you've just fucked up a lot of people's lives. And that is why it's wrong.

And for being bullied? Shit, I need to rant on this. Try being bullied, having the shit kicked out of you, the school turning a blind eye to it, and your parents believing and telling you the bullying is your fault, then get back to me. What, they called you bad names and pushed you around a bit? Wait'll they try to put your head through a drinking fountain, wait'll you get stabbed a couple times, wait'll you get gang tackled and beaten getting off the school when the fuckers rob you for your school field trip money. Until then, deal with your fucking problems, I went through all the above and worse and came out kicking. Yeah I might be a little fucked up but that's a small price to pay compared to being completely fucking dead.

What's the point of living for other people? It'd end up being like a marrige where you stay together for the kids, you'd end up being extremely resentful.

The bullingy thing I can relate to. I had it through secondary school for 5 years, not to the same degree, but I still never thought about killing myself because of it. My main motivation for going back for more is to show them you weren't easy prey and vengence.
Good for you to have gotten through it.

[Saurencaerthai]

I can't speak for all suicides, but I did read this one little bit (it's source escapes me at the moment), and that was that the person's ability to cope with something is outweighed by the problem. For that reason, I don't see it as an issue of "right or wrong". Generally, in all the people whom I had to deal with, that was pretty much the case, given that there were probably some minor differences, such as what caused it.

[Joe]

You're definitely Red's sister, Crimson. Always have something interesting to say about everything.

[neoolong]

What's the point of living for other people? It'd end up being like a marrige where you stay together for the kids, you'd end up being extremely resentful.

The bullingy thing I can relate to. I had it through secondary school for 5 years, not to the same degree, but I still never thought about killing myself because of it. My main motivation for going back for more is to show them you weren't easy prey and vengence.
Good for you to have gotten through it.

Well, if you have kids and let's say you're a single parent and you kill yourself, they're basically fucked.

[Master of Ossus]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

People call suicide "the easy way out" primarily because it is a method that someone can use to run away from their problems, instead of confronting them.

In almost all cases, suicide is wrong because it seriously affects other people. At the school where I taught, we had a suicide attempt once. Even though the student involved wasn't in any of my classes, some of my students did know the individual. I can testify that a few of them were emotionally devastated by what happened to them, and it took one of them several months to put herself back together. It quite literally affected almost everyone. People spent the next few weeks just feeling guilty about everything--and not even big things. I heard people saying things like, "Maybe if I had said hello..." or "If I hadn't been such a jerk in 6th grade..." "Maybe we would have been friends if I hadn't gone off to summer camp that one year, and it wouldn't have happened." It was really quite dreadful.

[Dorsk 81]

What's the point of living for other people? It'd end up being like a marrige where you stay together for the kids, you'd end up being extremely resentful.

The bullingy thing I can relate to. I had it through secondary school for 5 years, not to the same degree, but I still never thought about killing myself because of it. My main motivation for going back for more is to show them you weren't easy prey and vengence.
Good for you to have gotten through it.

Well, if you have kids and let's say you're a single parent and you kill yourself, they're basically fucked.

Yes, you're right they would, they could live with grandparents or a foster home, but they wouldn't be the same.
If you were to consider there was nothing to live for and you had kids and stayed alive for them then you might very well become resentful to them and end up being a bad parent and then they would have been better of without you.

[Dorsk 81]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

People call suicide "the easy way out" primarily because it is a method that someone can use to run away from their problems, instead of confronting them.

In almost all cases, suicide is wrong because it seriously affects other people. At the school where I taught, we had a suicide attempt once. Even though the student involved wasn't in any of my classes, some of my students did know the individual. I can testify that a few of them were emotionally devastated by what happened to them, and it took one of them several months to put herself back together. It quite literally affected almost everyone. People spent the next few weeks just feeling guilty about everything--and not even big things. I heard people saying things like, "Maybe if I had said hello..." or "If I hadn't been such a jerk in 6th grade..." "Maybe we would have been friends if I hadn't gone off to summer camp that one year, and it wouldn't have happened." It was really quite dreadful.

It is tragic when a student dies at a school and worse for their friends when its suicide. Before I left my secondary school there were at least 3 deaths of students. One girl died from drowning when she fell off her horse and the other was killed in a car accident and the other died of a deaise she'd been fighting since before I was there.
It's sad but true that even though most of the kids at your former school were truly sorry and wonder "what if..." there will always be a goup that would laugh about it and thats just pathetic and sad.

[InnerBrat]

And for being bullied? Shit, I need to rant on this. Try being bullied, having the shit kicked out of you, the school turning a blind eye to it, and your parents believing and telling you the bullying is your fault, then get back to me. What, they called you bad names and pushed you around a bit? Wait'll they try to put your head through a drinking fountain, wait'll you get stabbed a couple times, wait'll you get gang tackled and beaten getting off the school when the fuckers rob you for your school field trip money. Until then, deal with your fucking problems, I went through all the above and worse and came out kicking. Yeah I might be a little fucked up but that's a small price to pay compared to being completely fucking dead.

Wait a sec, aerius - are yo suggesting that all this kid had to put up with was beign called bad anmes and pushed about a bit? You're judging someone now without knowing the full facts.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

Suicide is appropriate in some circumstances, and even honourable. I have no problem with the basic idea of it, but obviously, due to its finality, one should carefully and reasonably consider taking such a final step. Suicide is the decision of a rational mind when there's no other alternative--it should always be avoided by the emotional mind on a momentary fling of passion, but, sadly, those are most of the people who commit suicide these days, at least in the western world.

[Dorsk 81]

Recently in Britian a student killed himself due to bullying at school.
What do people mean by calling it the "easy way out"?
Is suicide wrong or is it just our preconcived ideas that death is wrong that leads us to believe this?
Your thoughts?

Suicide is appropriate in some circumstances, and even honourable. I have no problem with the basic idea of it, but obviously, due to its finality, one should carefully and reasonably consider taking such a final step. Suicide is the decision of a rational mind when there's no other alternative--it should always be avoided by the emotional mind on a momentary fling of passion, but, sadly, those are most of the people who commit suicide these days, at least in the western world.

A slight confussion of this is apparent in the news a few weeks ago that a woman set fire to herself for her cause.
This appears to be premeditated anf therefore was given serious thought, but was also combined with passion as her emotion for her cause was so storng.

[Dorsk 81]

And for being bullied? Shit, I need to rant on this. Try being bullied, having the shit kicked out of you, the school turning a blind eye to it, and your parents believing and telling you the bullying is your fault, then get back to me. What, they called you bad names and pushed you around a bit? Wait'll they try to put your head through a drinking fountain, wait'll you get stabbed a couple times, wait'll you get gang tackled and beaten getting off the school when the fuckers rob you for your school field trip money. Until then, deal with your fucking problems, I went through all the above and worse and came out kicking. Yeah I might be a little fucked up but that's a small price to pay compared to being completely fucking dead.

Wait a sec, aerius - are yo suggesting that all this kid had to put up with was beign called bad anmes and pushed about a bit? You're judging someone now without knowing the full facts.

I don't think the extent of the bullying was mentioned in any of the reports, possibly due to the distress it would cause friends and family, but I think it should have been, so that the bulies could be just as disgusted with their actions as everyone else is or at least should be.

[UltraViolence83]

If you don't feel sad or upset when contemplating suicide, and just a tiny bit of you actually feels good about it, is that a sign that your suicidal thoughts have transgressed from emotional to rational?


Hell, I just got rejected by yet another girl tonight, kind of a coincidence that this thread was up on top of the forum. But this is emotional.


EDIT: I think I'll post a new thread on this subject.

[UltraViolence83]

BTW I fucking hate bullies with a passion and am glad when they get their just deserts.

[Dorsk 81]

BTW I fucking hate bullies with a passion and am glad when they get their just deserts.

Makes you wonder whats going to happen to them.

[UltraViolence83]

Hopefully they'll get ass-raped with a baseball bat wrapped in sandpaper.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A slight confussion of this is apparent in the news a few weeks ago that a woman set fire to herself for her cause.
This appears to be premeditated anf therefore was given serious thought, but was also combined with passion as her emotion for her cause was so storng.

One of the Iranians in France?

[LordShaithis]

Hey, I'll pull my own plug if I damn well please. As for the arguments against:

#1) It'll make people sad! -- I'm not sitting through another fifty years of this, waiting to die of natural causes, just to keep you from feeling bad.

#2) It'll get better, really! -- The notion that everything will get better for everyone if they just wait long enough is Pollyanna bullshit.

#3) It's the easy way out! -- I like convenience.

#4) It's pathetic and cowardly! -- If I'm in a wretched enough state to want to bust a cap in myself, do you think I'm going to care about your opinion of my honor?

Have a nice day.

[Dorsk 81]

A slight confussion of this is apparent in the news a few weeks ago that a woman set fire to herself for her cause.
This appears to be premeditated anf therefore was given serious thought, but was also combined with passion as her emotion for her cause was so storng.

One of the Iranians in France?

Yea, who it was and why eluded me for a sec there.

[CrimsonRaine]

You're definitely Red's sister, Crimson. Always have something interesting to say about everything.

*giggles* I truly can't decide if that's a good or bad thing.

[CrimsonRaine]

Okay. Your turn.

I agree with you there, It is fact that everything dies, but why shouldn't it be your choice to shorten the road that leads to death? People don't choose life, it's thrust upon them. Seeing as they didn't choose to live, why should they also not be able to choose when they die?
I know most people have that choice taken away from them due to illness, accidents, etc, but why shouldn't you be able to choose when you end it if you can?

Do you have any idea how unhealthy this sounds? Most people who would think, "Hey, I don't like life. Screw it" and slit their wrists is hardly someone thinking rational. If you wanna debate me on this, go ahead, but I'll give you cookies if you can sound rational whatsoever.

I don't think anything concerning his mental state was reported, if itwas, I didn't see it.
Yes to an extent it does build your character, but that can also be taken another way. If you were bullied to an extreme it could build you into someone with mental instabilities, i.e. paranoia.
I don't see how it is a disreguard for life. People make life out to be an extremely valuable thing that should be cherished. Why? A large number of people who say this are extremely hypocritical. Why should human life be valude and yet later they'll go down to McDonalds and eat the remains of another life?

Animals and humans are very different. It's called the food chain. Face it, bucko, we've been eating cows, chickens, pigs and all their ancestors for millennia now. If you want to disrupt that, then find a veggie garden. We eat animals - and fruits and vegetables - because they provide nutrients. We are not apart of that food chain; i.e., we don't eat each other (before anyone says to me, 'But hey! Humans provide LOTS of nutrients.' That doesn't apply here).

What if a suicidal person was of complete sound mind? After weeks of going over it in their head they said "Hmm....ok, I don't see any point in living I think I'll stop." Firstly you'd probably question their mental state.
As an Atheist I do ingnore that stament as I don't believe in God.
Your Parents gave you life and you didn't have a say in it.

Sound in mind? You give me a reason to kill yourself that isn't remotely emotional. Good luck with that one. Secondly, you and I have very different beliefs, and as I've told many people, you get down to a certain point with beliefs where you come to a dead stop. You seem to think we have no choice when we are born. Okay, that's the truth - but I'm sure as fuck glad that I was born, so I don't take it for granted. And yes, I do think God has something to do with that, but that's when I lose you.

Why should it not be anyones choice? It's your life not anyone elses.

Again, this is another train of thought that just sounds unhealthy. If you want the attitude: "It's mine! I want it! I wanna do what I want with it!" Fine, but it's hardly rational. It's, again, emotional.

Crimson Raine