Very old planet discovered

Andras · Post by **Andras** » 2003-07-11 08:59am

Scientists Discover Planetary Patriarch

By Kathy Sawyer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 11, 2003; Page A01

Astronomers have detected the Methuselah of planets, a world many times older than any other known, a remarkable survivor formed in a violent, primordial setting where planets were not thought to exist.

About 800 times more massive than Earth, the planet was born around a yellow, sun-like star about 13 billion years ago. That is about 9 billion years earlier than any planet previously detected and a mere billion years after the big bang that spawned all space and time -- a time, most astronomers believe, when the universe had yet to create the raw material needed to make planets, according to researchers who revealed their findings yesterday.

The discovery could change theories about how easily nature makes planets from even the skimpiest of raw materials, and about the abundance of planets -- including some that might harbor life -- thriving unexpectedly in odd corners of the cosmos, astronomers said.

"What we think we've found is an example of the first generation of planets formed in the universe," said Steinn Sigurdsson of Pennsylvania State University, a member of the observing team. "We think this planet formed with its star 12.713 billion years ago, when the [Milky Way] galaxy was . . . just in the process of forming."

For a decade, the identity of this object had been an astronomical mystery. The observing team solved it by combining the sharp vision of the Hubble Space Telescope with other instruments and techniques, plus many years of inventive detective work. The results were announced at a NASA headquarters news conference yesterday and in today's issue of the journal Science.

Confirmation that the object is a planet "is a stunning revelation," said Alan P. Boss of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, an expert on the formation of planetary systems who is not a member of the observing team. "This means that 13 billion years ago, life could have arisen and then died out," he said. "This has immense implications."

Andrew Fruchter of the Space Telescope Science Institute, a specialist in pulsar studies not on the discovery team, said the evidence seems convincing but noted that it is only one example. "These are very early days in the study of extrasolar planets, and it probably is too early to rule them in or out just about anywhere," he said.

Less than a decade ago, astronomers were still struggling to confirm the first planet detected beyond the family of the sun. Now, the population of known extrasolar planets exceeds 100. But the latest addition breaks the mold in several ways, Boss said.

Today, the planet orbits an odd couple made up of a cold, collapsed star called a white dwarf and an even more bizarre companion known as a pulsar, which spins on its axis almost 100 times a second. The newfound planet is the only one known to orbit such a double star system.

This eccentric trio resides at the core of the ancient globular star cluster M4, about 5,600 light-years from Earth in the direction of the summer constellation Scorpius. That cluster is visible in binoculars as a fuzzy white smudge very near the bright star Antares.

The planet's habitat is as noteworthy as its longevity, astronomers said. The cluster was the site of a furious firestorm of star birth in its early history, and the young planet must have survived blistering ultraviolet radiation, the shockwaves of stellar cataclysms known as supernovas and other mayhem.

Also, in what is possibly most significant for theories of planet formation, the setting has almost none of what Boss called "feedstock" for making planets. The globular cluster formed so early in cosmic history that it was deficient in heavy elements, such as carbon, silicon and oxygen -- the building blocks of planets such as those in our solar system. All the heavy elements that fill the modern universe were cooked up over time in the nuclear furnaces of successive generations of stars.

But 13 billion years ago, the cluster was almost all hydrogen and helium gas, with only about 1/30th the heavy elements found in our own sun and planets, Boss said. With this deficit in the stuff of rocks, ice and other presumed essentials, some astronomers had argued that globular clusters could not spawn planets, and recent searches had seemed to confirm that.

The new discovery "offers tantalizing evidence that formation processes are quite robust and efficient at making use of a small amount of heavier elements," said Sigurdsson, lead author of the Science paper.

It also means that "the traditional way of making gas giant planets just isn't going to work in this case," Boss said, and that less widely accepted theories, such as one he has proposed that requires nothing more than gas, may get a boost.

The planet is too dim to be directly observed, but the team ferreted out its existence and inferred its tortured history by sifting through generous clues provided by its weird present-day setting -- especially by the pulsar's peculiar properties.

In the early 1990s, radio astronomers had timed the pulses the spinning pulsar emitted -- like beams from a lighthouse -- with exacting precision. They detected a complex wobble caused by the gravity of two unseen companions tugging at it.

The first companion was determined to be a white dwarf in a tight, 191-day orbit around the pulsar. But the other object, orbiting about 2 billion miles from the central pair, remained a mystery.

It was only when the Sigurdsson team used the Hubble Space Telescope to distinguish the movement of the white dwarf that it was able to determine the mass of the third body at 2.5 times the mass of Jupiter. "Several pieces of the puzzle were missing," Sigurdsson said. "The Hubble data snapped it all into place."

Once it determined this unlikely trio's characteristics, the team inferred its adventuresome recent history, which included a plunge through the heart of the cluster, a hostile encounter there that bounced it back out toward the cluster's outskirts, and the transformation of the planet's parent star into the white dwarf.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... v=hptop_tb

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-11 10:21am

Hey slick! Now let's blow it up because it's an affront to God. Really. A planet that old is clearly the work of the devil.

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-07-11 10:50am

DAMMIT they found my secret base.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-11 02:05pm

i think we just found the solar system in which alien life most likely evolved.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-07-11 02:54pm

Further study revealed the star is, in fact, several billion times older than the Universe.

A scientific vehicle equipped with our new hyperspace drives is being dispatched with an AI unit called a 'Mind' to oversee...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-11 03:01pm

SirNitram wrote:Further study revealed the star is, in fact, several billion times older than the Universe.

A scientific vehicle equipped with our new hyperspace drives is being dispatched with an AI unit called a 'Mind' to oversee...

[broadcast, M14.1, tra. $n4.28.856.6883]
xGSV Watcher on the Wall
Oh dear. I hope Contact section has fun.. Want me to get RayCav to go probe someone for information?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-07-11 03:53pm

Oh lordy, I am so glad I have read Excession.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-11 04:04pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Oh lordy, I am so glad I have read Excession.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-07-11 04:08pm

Now if only I was clever enough to add some parodies of the text to comment on the planet.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-07-11 05:25pm

Most fascinating. And if true, this discovery may challenge several basic theories regarding the Universe.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-07-12 12:46am

[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.3]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Uh Oh, it's called for pizza. I don't think they'll make it in 30 minutes.

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
I want a f*cking damn pizza! And I want it NOW!

[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.4]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Someone get that Pizzaboy a hyperdrive.

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2003-07-12 01:07am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.3]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Uh Oh, it's called for pizza. I don't think they'll make it in 30 minutes.

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
I want a f*cking damn pizza! And I want it NOW!

[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.4]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Someone get that Pizzaboy a hyperdrive.

Better not be one of those places that has a 30-minutes or free deal

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-07-12 01:25am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.3]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Uh Oh, it's called for pizza. I don't think they'll make it in 30 minutes.

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
I want a f*cking damn pizza! And I want it NOW!

[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.4]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Someone get that Pizzaboy a hyperdrive.

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
The worst part about it is, 30 minutes to us is like months to a meat creature!

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-07-12 01:51am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
SyntaxVorlon wrote:[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.3]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Uh Oh, it's called for pizza. I don't think they'll make it in 30 minutes.

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
I want a f*cking damn pizza! And I want it NOW!

[broadcast, SCdiv4, tra. $$55535.4]
xGSV Wasn't me, really
Someone get that Pizzaboy a hyperdrive.
[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
The worst part about it is, 30 minutes to us is like months to a meat creature!

[broadcast, Odd Old thing floating about, tra. ??]
xMethusalah 1
Yum meat creature pizza.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-07-12 03:52am

Aiyeee, that's an old planet. I wasn't too surprised though. It's a gas giant. Find a terrestrial planet that old and then the scientific community will really be up in a tizzy!

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-07-12 03:58am

So how is it intended to prove this? If it was stated before, I missed this while reading the article.

~ver

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-12 04:01am

verilon wrote:So how is it intended to prove this? If it was stated before, I missed this while reading the article.

~ver

prove what? the planets old, thats all.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-07-12 04:03am

verilon wrote:So how is it intended to prove this? If it was stated before, I missed this while reading the article.

~ver

Very easily. The planet formed around a white-dwarf member star of the M4 globular cluster. Globular clusters formed before the bulk of the galaxy, and just about all their stars are ten to fourteen billion years old. So, it follows that the planet is about as old as it's parent star.

(Woohoo, 1500!)

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-07-17 02:27am

The really old planet...

"Back in my days, we didn't have atmosphere or ecosystems or any of that fancy stuff!"

The Really Old Planet, coming this fall on ABC!

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-07-17 02:41am

Certainly makes you wonder if there are "first ones" civilizations out there that have existed for Billions of years.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-07-17 02:47am

Actually, now that I think about it, I'll be pretty suprised if there aren't at least a few.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-07-17 12:53pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, I'll be pretty suprised if there aren't at least a few.

Only if a civilization can be created in a nearly pure hydrogen environment, if not life at all.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-17 01:58pm

SyntaxVorlon wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, I'll be pretty suprised if there aren't at least a few.
Only if a civilization can be created in a nearly pure hydrogen environment, if not life at all.

I think he means that if the solar system its in is that old, then there could be equally old earth like planets.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-07-17 02:02pm

[stuttered tight point, M32, tra. @ n4.24.246.3462]
x GCU I wish we were civilised (Irritating Git Tendancy)

ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not another one!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-17 02:49pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Certainly makes you wonder if there are "first ones" civilizations out there that have existed for Billions of years.

its my personal hope that we are the first ones, so we need to spread out into space as quickly as possible.

dont want the newbies taking over the messageboard