More Friend Logic

[Illuminatus Primus]

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:50:24 PM): lol yes u do call fundies beliefs sick, or something akin to that

Imperatorus (11:50:41 PM): I called them misguided and illogical.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:50:51 PM): (read: sick)

Imperatorus (11:51:00 PM): Spencer, do you have a dictionary? Let me know when they have

Sick. adj.

(See: misguided) Sick != misguided.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:51:53 PM): but they rnt misguided to the person who believes them. to that person ur misguided. so who is wrong? nobody thats what it boils down to

Imperatorus (11:52:09 PM): You don't think opinions can be objectively wrong.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:52:19 PM): opinions cant be objectively wrong. find THAT in the dictionary

Imperatorus (11:52:37 PM): Silly Nazis. Clearly their given the shadow of a doubt about the scientific nature of race. If someone wants to believe that black people are inferior because of their race, that's not objectively wrong?

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:55:32 PM): no its wrong to kill them

Imperatorus (11:55:43 PM): Answer the question.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:55:45 PM): its not an opinion john

Imperatorus (11:55:49 PM): Yes it is.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:55:51 PM): to claim u have no knowledge of something IS NOT AN OPINION. lol look up opinion. u have no idea what it means

Imperatorus (11:56:08 PM): Oh you mean Rumsfeld's statement. I thought you were talking about the racist.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:56:29 PM): no

Imperatorus (11:56:37 PM): No, Rumsfeld's statement is a factually incorrect piece of shit. See: lie.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:56:38 PM): its not wrong to be racist. its wrong to lynch the black guy. yes i agree

Imperatorus (11:56:52 PM): Racism is an illogical belief.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:56:57 PM): but rumsfeld's statement has no validity in this conversation

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:57:18 PM): you're belief that protestantism is wrong is JUST as illogical as their belief that you are wrong

Imperatorus (11:57:44 PM): Not really--religious belief is NOT morally wrong.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:58:39 PM): ...i know. what on earth does that have to do with my statement? im saying neither of u r wrong. being illogical doenst make u wrong

Imperatorus (11:58:57 PM): My belief is them being wrong

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (11:59:08 PM): thats a contradiction

Imperatorus (11:59:17 PM): I know they cannot back-up their beliefs logically. That's not a belief; that is a statement of fact. There's nothing wrong with theism being illogical; they can continue it at will, there's no problem.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:01:04 AM): but its logical to them

Imperatorus (12:01:09 AM): You invented this strawman--I find the application of Old Testament morals that call for the slaughter of infadels and the raping of virgins subversive....because most documents which suggest the same are y'know...subversive. While one can believe them all they want, that doesn't make the application of the morality contained therein disturbing,

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:01:15 AM): to them, there is a god and this is indisputable

Imperatorus (12:01:32 AM): Logic is not a relative concept. Its blindingly obvious you do not assume the existance of something with no evidence. Theists suspend their normal logic to believe in God. That's why they say faith in neccessary. I doubt educated moderate Christians would claim their beliefs are grounded in logic--they would be right. And there's nothing wrong with that belief just because it is illogical, that just is the way it is.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:03:14 AM): logic is an entirely relative concept. there is science, then there is logic. thats a major flaw in thought john. cuz ppl's logic is entirely subjective

Imperatorus (12:03:35 AM): Wrong. Do you have any idea what Ockam's Razor is? People's rationalizations are subjective.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:03:47 AM): which is logic

Imperatorus (12:03:49 AM): The concept of logic is just the study of a therefore b.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:03:53 AM): there is no universal set of logic. saying u believe in god is illogical to an atheist

Imperatorus (12:04:47 AM): Because you do not assume the existance of entities that cannot be defined and for which no verifiable or testable evidence exists. Its called the Principle of Parsimony. Its why you don't believe me if I tell you there's an invisible fire-breathing non-corperal dragon in my room. Racism is illogical because racists cannot adequately provide evidence for supposed inferiority or properly define inferiority to begin with.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:08:07 AM): to them it makes perfect sense. their logic says yes, urs says no

Imperatorus (12:08:17 AM): It is not mine and theirs

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:08:21 AM): ur never gonna get along with ne1 if u keep tellin them they r illogical. there is no universal set of logic. west africans find it ok to stone whores. thats logical to them. allah says they must die

Imperatorus (12:09:03 AM): Appeal to common practice fallacy. Who the fuck cares what they do? What does that have to do diddly shit with whether it makes sense or not? Why do such things as "logic fallacies" exist if there is not a system of self-consistency the universe obeys that human percieve as logic. Obviously no human being can have perfect logic. If you were right, than the term faulty logic would have no meaning.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:11:11 AM): ur confusing science and logic. its illogical to say gravity doesnt exist. its not illogical to say black ppl r not as good as white ppl; its a conception "i think im better than nigger boy," said the confederate, he believes it thus it is his logic and reasoning

Imperatorus (12:11:53 AM): log·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ljk)
n.
The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

Imperatorus (12:12:04 AM): it is a study of the principles of reasoning

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:13:23 AM): and? to them its logical

Imperatorus (12:13:28 AM): log·i·cal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lj-kl)
adj.
Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:13:39 AM): its clear and consistent FOR THEM

Imperatorus (12:13:38 AM): Logic is a specific study.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:13:41 AM): no it isnt. you cannot define logic. u can define law and nature and science

Imperatorus (12:13:56 AM): Oh I'm sorry Spencer you understand the meaning of the word better than dictionary and I'm clearly flawed

logical

According to the rules of logic; as, a logical argument or inference; the reasoning is logical.'

The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines logic as "the science of reasoning, proof, thinking, or inference." Logic will let you analyze an argument or a piece of reasoning, and work out whether it is likely to be correct or not. You don't need to know logic to argue, of course; but if you know even a little, you'll find it easier to spot invalid arguments.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:16:20 AM): this is from a mathematical standpoint what r u trying to prove? that by being illogical by john's terms ur wrong?

Imperatorus (12:16:40 AM): They ARE NOT MINE. I have read up on logical fallacies and principles--that is the only reason I understand what logic is better than most people. Because I had an interest and taught myself it. I am not better than they are.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:17:40 AM): nor are u more right

Imperatorus (12:17:44 AM): I've just gained more knowledge in this field. STOP with the right/wrong shit. That is a strawman fallacy. I said logical/illogical.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:18:00 AM): ur the one who brought it up! why does it matter if they dont follow ur particular set of logic?

Imperatorus (12:18:25 AM): That's like saying "your particular set of science of reasoning"

Imperatorus (12:22:05 AM): I don't have perfect logic--but I understand
you don't assume things that don't need to exist. Kathryn cannot be right because she claimed abortion = murder. Murder has a precise definition: killing a human being not in self-defense. Since a human being is defined by their mind, or, if you prefer, your "soul" (esp. as a theist would hold) than a cluster of cells in a uterus (which are frequently self-terminated anyway) is not intrinsicially different than a toenail clipping.

A third trimester fetus has a fully developped human brain and has settled into a dream-like state much as you and I experience. It can live independently, with some hospitalization, but can survive outside the womb. The fetus can think, feel, and react to stimuli. It has a fully developed human body, esp. the brain. It can survive on its own. This is a human being.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:22:28 AM): to her, abortion means murder so its right in her mind

Imperatorus (12:22:34 AM): I asked her to explain how a cluster of cells is any different than any other cluster of cells.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:22:34 AM): so what else matters? it doesnt matter to her, its alive

Imperatorus (12:23:43 AM): Murder is a legal concept. An embryo is, by definition, not a human being, and it cannnot be murder. She can feel it should be murder. But it cannot be murder. That simply is the way it is because that is how the definitions are constructed.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:24:10 AM): john, until u understand this getting along with ppl will be hell

[Shinova]

Oh well, like I say: let them stew in their own ignorance.

[Lord of the Farce]

Just reading the first half, it's clear that your friend can't seem to tell the difference between "logic" and "opinion".

[DPDarkPrimus]

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:24:10 AM): john, until u understand this getting along with ppl will be hell

That's funny, and here I had a whole new feeling of respect for Illuminatus for being able to put up with this shit.

[Illuminatus Primus]

He refuses to awknowledge his definitions and presumptions about certain terms and methods of reasoning is wrong, and has been since Classical Greece.

He's considered one of the "smart" kids too. He's one of those the waxes and whines over pluralistic and postmodernist "everything is opinion, nothing is wrong or right" delusions and his only objective standard is what annoys him and does not.

He thinks the state should run religion. He thinks atheism is a religion. He thinks Bush's faith-based initiative isn't descriminatory or a poor alocation of gov't funds because all religions (yeah, he thinks atheists would be able to apply to Bush's initiative) have an "equal oppurtunity to join."

He thinks Communism is the final ideal we should all strive for. He thinks its ok for guys to lust and be shallow and want sex--for a girl to do the same thing makes her a slut because girls have "alterior motives for sex."

He wants to live in a fascist country.

Need I say more?

[DPDarkPrimus]

Kids who brown nose get considered intelligent. I assume he is that way?

[Wedge]

Damn, I felt like urgently hurt someone, how can he be SO stupid. I was thinking, should he get his balls choped off? or would their be another torture to inflict him enough pain?

[Trytostaydead]

Actually, the nervous system is pretty well formed by the first trimester

[Trytostaydead]

I will support your friend though in this, logic is subjective. Not the definition of logic, but what the BASIS for good logic is often defers greatly amongst time, culture and individuals.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Kids who brown nose get considered intelligent. I assume he is that way?

Yeah he tends to drop to joking when a confrontation with idiots is inevitable and always takes the cowardly and illogical compromise or just drops the issue when morons pop in.

I will support your friend though in this, logic is subjective. Not the definition of logic, but what the BASIS for good logic is often defers greatly amongst time, culture and individuals.

He tries to deny there is something even remotely like "faulty logic" or logic fallacies.

[Sriad]

*snip lots of words*

That was...interesting. In that annoying high-school-intellectual way.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Imperatorus (12:04:47 AM): Because you do not assume the existance of entities that cannot be defined and for which no verifiable or testable evidence exists. Its called the Principle of Parsimony. Its why you don't believe me if I tell you there's an invisible fire-breathing non-corperal dragon in my room. Racism is illogical because racists cannot adequately provide evidence for supposed inferiority or properly define inferiority to begin with.

M3GAKungFuRadi0 (12:08:07 AM): to them it makes perfect sense. their logic says yes, urs says no


My favorite exchange.

[DPDarkPrimus]

"Their logic". Heh, that's great.

[NapoleonGH]

Actually, the nervous system is pretty well formed by the first trimester

while the nervous system is formed, brain activitiy does not begin until about the semester mark (half way through developement, 4.5months on average).


ohh and logic is NOT subjective, logic has certain foundations that are immutable as the foundations of logic. The application of logic however is subjective, and by using logic we can often come to two totally separate conclusions. Logic isnt a subjective thing, its supremacy in human thought however could be considered so, as could its application.