you too can be an ex atheist!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 02:26am

http://www.ex-atheist.com/

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 02:28am

you heathens

http://www.tencommandments.org/heathens.shtml

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-19 02:29am

Looks like a bunch of long-winded leaps in logic and false analogies to me.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 02:45am

also interesting:

http://petitecute.home.att.net/atheismp.htm

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 03:15am

right, Im dicing her. will copy emails to you.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-07-19 04:00am

Oh goody

This I found interesting:

So now you realize that it is atheists (and other nonbelievers) who are in favor of putting their "terminally ill" parents to death; who are in favor of murdering innocent human embryos and fetuses; who are perpetuating homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality, pornography, pedophilia and etc; who are responsible for all the violence in the movie industry; who are responsible for all the smut on the web; who bear false witness against the existence of God; who bear the false testimony that the earth came into being by a cataclysmic explosion; who bear the false testimony of evolution; who bear the false testimony that man descended from the ape; who worship the creature rather than the Creator; who are responsible for all the moral decline in America and the world community.

This person seems to think that blaming us for all the moral problems he sees around himself is easier than actually studying the problems themselves. Though the nature of half of those problems are purely subjective to him.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 04:29am

my response, in her guest book:

Greetings.

I found your site while running a search on atheism, and after skimming for sometime, I decided I shall comment. My email is lastwords_Won@yahoo.com, and I am willing for viewers to comment on this essay. I am an Atheist raised a Christian, and agree with many of your facts, but disagree with your conclusions. So, in the nature of all good debates, I am presenting my views.

*That was what I expected to find when I first ventured into the world of atheist message boards. My mission was to learn everything I could about atheists—their beliefs, their attitudes, their general outlook on life. *

I find this rather excellent of you - learning about others is a key point in understanding people.

*Almost without exception, the atheists I met on the Internet said that they reached the conclusion that there was no God through cool-headed logic and a close examination of the evidence. While I don’t doubt their sincerity—and that some of them have, in fact, used that approach—the words and actions of most atheists I’ve encountered indicate otherwise. In this and the next several parts of this series of commentaries, I’ll list what I believe are the reasons most atheists believe as they do.*

Speaking personally, I find this true. Applying the scientific method, God has not been proven to exist, therefore he does not exist.

*My experiences on atheist message boards have indicated to me that the main reason most atheists disbelieve in God is political. This is not to say that they thought to themselves, “Since I believe in gun control (or abortion rights, or higher taxes), I’m going to become an atheist.” There’s no direct correlation between a specific political belief and a disbelief in God. However, unlike Christians, who let their religious beliefs lead them to their political philosophy, atheists tend to let their political philosophy lead them to their religious beliefs. *

Perhaps that is true - I was, as said before, raised a Christian and thus rather right-wing in my views - no sex before marriage, gays are sinning, the usual Christian mentality. When I abandoned that, I found no reason for either, and have since become increasingly liberal.

* Up to that point, I thought that the advancement of atheism was their main concern. For most Christians, their faith is the most important thing in their lives, and their other concerns—their love of family, friends, politics, etc.—and based soundly on their religious foundation. I thought atheist were the same way when it came to their godless philosophy. But based on their vigorous defense of their political beliefs, as compared to their lower-key arguments on behalf of atheism, I began to think otherwise. People tend to defend what they hold dearest in their hearts—the dearer the beliefs, the stronger the defense for them—and the atheists on that message board defended their political philosophy more than they ever did their religious beliefs*

Perhaps. As a secular humanist, I think the protection of individual liberties - that is, those listed in the Bill of Rights - of keyest importance. Thus, any mentality that would take that away from me, I struggle against. And, as Exodus 23:24 shows, Christianity is intolerant.

*Atheists believe that the only “truths” in the universe are the ones discovered, recognized and sanctioned by science. Things that science can’t address don’t exist. Therefore, the only path to universal truth is the Scientific Method. Man has but two instinctive drives: to survive and to reproduce. All other human desires not only can be broken down and stuffed into one of those two, they must be. You love your wife because doing so helps insure you’ll have offspring. You love and protect your child so that he can survive and pass on your genes. You love your neighbor because the survival of the “pack” helps insure the survival of the individual—meaning you. You do good deeds so that (1) other people won’t kill you, and (2) maybe some sweet young thing, who is looking for a father-type to help her take care of her future offspring, will ask you to supply the necessary seeds. Similarly, all your other likes, dislikes, feelings, urges, etc., are due to your drives to survive and to multiply. Or so says science.*

From a scientific point of view, that is correct. Of course, we aren't all vulcans, and thus love and affection enter the equation. Evolution may have provided us with endorphins so we feel fuzzy in the prescence of a loved one - but that doesnt make the feelings any less true.

*When you add Spock’s “intelligence is sexy” message into this equation—along with the alien’s famous arrogance—you end up with a group of atheists who are increasingly intolerant of the viewpoints of others and frustratingly stubborn in their belief that they are right. The quickest way for an atheist to “lose face” among his peers is to admit that he was wrong concerning any aspect of science. That’s why so many such debates end in stalemates, with all parties claiming that the other guys are wrong.*

Interestingly enough, with scientists, if you can prove they are wrong, they change. Ive done it in the past, and I expect any other scientist has as well. That is, of course, how science evolves and improves. Christianity, on the other hand - or any religion - does not improve. As Henry Morris, head of Insitute for Creation Research has said, "When Science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpeted its data." Fundamentalists look for facts to fit the theories, their religious dogma, instead of theories to fit the facts. Its a backward mode of thinking.

*But the worst thing an atheist can do on an Internet forum is to give even the slightest hint that something outside the known laws of science might exist*

Rightly so. There is an invisible dragon living under my bed. You cant see it, touch it, smell it, and no means of technology shows its there. Prove its nonexistence.

We cannot keep a thought mentality such as that - or we would think there are invisible dragons everywhere, and they stop us from going anywhere.

*Because of their strong desired to impress others and to appear to be “smart” and “knowledgeable,” I believe that the second most frequent reason for atheism (right behind “political”) is: vanity.*

Perhaps. But when you arent aspiring to please a god who wont respond, self improvement is the only means left to you.

*By contrast, a Christian seeks approval and acceptance from Jesus, Whose teachings advocate humbling yourself before others, i.e., taking the less-honorable place at the table, and acknowledging the fact that you are undeserving of the wonderful love God gives you.*

I always become amused at such statements. Are you not aware God wants some people to go to hell?

Pr.16:4
"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Jn.12:40
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
Rom.9:18
"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."
2 Th.2:11-12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

*On an atheist forum, I once made a reference to how one of the world’s leading surgeons regularly prays to God before performing an operation. He not only asks God to guide his hands during the surgery, but once again thanks God for allowing him to win a scholarship to medical school. He includes in his prayer his gratitude for being able to learn the material and to obtain the position he now holds, where he can do his best to save the lives of people in need. The atheists to whom I told this story were completely baffled by the actions of the surgeon. Their confusion went beyond simple criticism of the man for believing in a Supreme Being. They couldn’t understand why the surgeon would want to give credit to anyone other than himself.*

Please, show me where God took the test, answered the questions, or moved the scalpel. Until you do, I accept that only human effort is involved.

*As was pointed out earlier, the overwhelming majority of the atheists I have met over the Internet call themselves political liberals. They feel their own freedom depends on holding political conservatives at bay. In other words, they want to live their own lives free from the rules they wish to place on others. This dovetails perfectly into atheistic philosophy, because the concept of an “ultimate authority”—a God Who can invoke unchecked laws governing their lives—is repulsive to atheists. The problems presented by holding such a philosophy are compounded by the fact that atheists see themselves as their own “ultimate authority.”*

Surely you arent claiming all atheists are anarchists? That would be the height of stereotyping. I am content in working for an authority placed by myself, and limited by others, placed by myself. Democracy, you see. Power corrupts - it is best to limit it's spread. Show me God's election, his end of term, or his checks or balances.

*Their moral code is dictated by their own conscience. The results of such a one-sided set of “values” is predictable.*

Do you intend to turn off your conscience then? It is why I fear Christianity, indeed, religious mentality, so very much. If you thought God told you to kill people, you would. Abraham did it. Joshua did it. If you follow the laws God has placed in the Bible, you should as well. Exodus 21:15 demand you slay your children - Leviticus 20:13 demands you slaughter homosexuals. Many Christians Ive talked to have said if God committed the holocaust, it would be ok - didnt you know genocide is always wrong? That is why Genesis 6 is so abhorrent.

*The tragedy of self-moralizing is also evidenced by atheistic posts pertaining to sex. . . Other “polls” have indicated that many atheists feel that promiscuity is evolutionary, and that a few believe the legal age for sex should be lowered to include children. Please understand that atheists aren’t the only people with such beliefs, but they are the only ones I’ve seen openly, and apparently without shame, express them.*

Please, dont stereotype. Atheism per se does not support pedophila.

*Christians aren’t perfect, but they do have an independent set of morals—one that doesn’t change every time they decide they want to do something that’s against the rules. It’s a code that has withstood the test of time. Christians of today are following the same laws that God and Jesus gave them thousands of years ago. They provide a standard and a goal, and are the foundation and framework upon which wonderful lives can be built.*

You'll have no problem if I demand you and other women surrender power, as per 1 Timothy 2:11-12, demand you delete this website because silence is your due, and demand you act as a sex toy, in Romans 1:27, of course.

-snaps fingers- now, woman! You must obey men!

*When asked why they reject the idea of the existence of God, almost all the atheists I’ve ever met claim they reached that conclusion through science and/or reasoning. But atheists do not have a monopoly on science nor reasoning, and the fact that the vast majority of the world population—with both science and reasoning at their disposal—believes there is a God indicates there's something wrong with the way atheists use those tools. *

Appeal to majority fallacy. Please - you can do better then this.

*I don’t mean to sound curt, but the laws of science are the same for everyone, and if an understanding of science was all it took to become an atheist, then all the churches around the world would be empty every Sunday morning.*

Its quite true. The Bible Belt buries one in religious training, even to the point of public schools - make it a secular government, and that would fade away.

*The simple fact of the matter is that science doesn’t reject the idea of a Supreme Being. Science deals with things that can be observed and measured. If something can’t be observed or measured, science can’t deal with it—science doesn’t say it doesn’t exist.*

See my response regarding dragons, above.

*The atheistic claim that, if God existed, something about Him would be observable and measurable, is immaterial and has nothing to do with science. Yet, it’s amazing how often atheists say that they dropped their beliefs in God because of such a faulty, unscientific concept.*

Science, does, however, disproves the Bible quite handily. To devise a society based on it alone would cripple Humanity needlessly.

*Likewise, many atheists claim they “reasoned out” that God doesn’t exist. They usually cite conflicting passages in the Bible or ask such questions as, “Why would God allow suffering in the world?” or, “Why won’t He show Himself to us?” But I’ll never understand how someone who can “reason out” that God doesn’t exist, has such a hard time “reasoning out” that (1) errors in Biblical translations and poor word-of-mouth communications can create conflicting passages*

You claim translation errors - if the Bible has errors, why should I believe in miracles? They could just be a fairy tale.

*You would think that people who deny the existence of God would be unflustered by charges that they might burn for all eternity for their disbelief. But, strangely, that’s not the case. Nothing in Christian doctrine seems to anger atheists more than the idea of hell or, more specifically, the prospect that they might someday go there. They talk about it, they make fun of it, they wear their possible condemnation like a badge of honor, but more than anything else, it angers them.*

Certainly. A threat of torture ruins anyones day. A call to kill en masse hurts ones feelings mightily. Consider Exodus 31:14 - kill those who dont keep the sabbath. Atheists certainly dont, and I dislike death threats.

You seem a patriot, my dear, why do you disdain the jihadists of 9/11 on one hand and call for crusade in the other?

*Because God gives man a free will, each of us can live the life we choose. *

Read your Bible, love. Your God doesnt allow free will.
2 Th.2:11-12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

*We are free to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheistic, you name it. In spite of what many people—including some Christians—believe, Jesus never promises earthly rewards to His followers, beyond the joy of knowing they are loved by God*

Read your Bible.

Revelation 21:12 - we gain cities and palaces and immortality. Please try to keep up.

*Atheists enjoy exploiting this set-up by uttering all sorts of blasphemies then pointing to the sky and saying, “You see? God didn’t strike me down with a lightning bolt. There is no God.” Likewise, they tempt God by saying, “If He exists, then why doesn’t He make Himself known to me when I ask Him to perform a miracle for me? There is no God.” These little “demonstrations” take place in the here-and-now, when the results—or the lack thereof—can be seen by all.*

I have a better question - why doesnt he heal Africa? I would convert instantly, given proof of his existence. He would gain a billion souls and save a billion lives. Is he a sadist? Mic.2:3 suggests so.

*But the concept of hell is something that cannot be so tested. It frustrates atheists a great deal when Christians reply that the punishments for their blasphemies and temptations will come later in the form of a fiery furnace. It’s something that atheists can’t immediately challenge, let alone disprove. The resulting anger usually takes the form of ridicule and sarcasm, hence their “delight” when a Christian tells them they might be going to hell. Their reaction is very Shakespearian; methinks they doth jest too much.*

Christians become sadists too, you know. Revelation 11:8-10. And you wonder why Christianity is so reviled in some circles.

*Years ago, during a Sunday School class, one of my teachers said that God doesn’t send people to hell, but allows them to go. Sinners, she said, hate God so much that they actually choose hell over heaven, just to get away from Him. I had never heard that viewpoint before and, frankly, tended to discredit it. How in the world could anyone want to go to hell? It wasn’t until last year that I encountered evidence that the teacher was right.*

2 Th.2:11-12 is all the evidence you need. God wants some to burn.

*I asked the atheists on a message board if they ever worried about going to hell. They were quick to express—angrily—their opinion that hell doesn’t exist. But to my shock, they went on to say that, if hell did exist, they’d rather go there than to go to a heaven over which God presides! Their reasons varied from, “I don’t want to spend eternity with a God who murders innocent children,” to, “I’d rather take a stand for truth and justice in hell than to put up with God’s lies,” to, “I’d rather be my own master in hell than to be God’s slave,” to, “That Satan dude sounds like my kinda guy.” *

Certainly. Any person who committed this many atrocities ( http://www.kgivler.com/teens/tboard/vie ... php?t=3375) deserves no worship, no love, and no praise. I would rather die in the gulag then serve a Stalin.

*Not only do those answers display a gross ignorance about the Christian concept of hell*

Revelation 21:8 is rather clear, thank you.

*The vast majority of atheists I have met on Internet message boards not only discredit Christianity, but are also hostile toward it. Some of them will tell you that they merely want “equality” between viewpoints, when what they really want is the removal of Christianity from public life and, eventually, have it drummed out of existence.*

Certainly. I despise death worship.

*The above two paragraphs, while shocking, merely present the logical end to the means provided by atheistic philosophy. If there is no God, then religion is a lie. What parent wants his child to be exposed to such a lie? What citizen wants to live under laws patterned after a fraudulent document such as the Bible? What pedestrian wants to walk down the street and see little reminders of a hopelessly flawed set of values, such as a church or a nativity scene? Atheists see their current existence as the only life they’ll ever have, and the earth as their only world. Scientific fact is their savior, so faith is their Satan. Why would they want to allow untruths to be so prominent in their society?*

Exactly.

*Atheists who claim that they honor Jesus as a “great philosopher,” *

I dont think he existed. I dont think he was great, either. Confuscius came up with the golden rule long before Jesus, and anyone can be a racist. Mark 7:27.

Jesus = God, inevitably, and I also dislike such a monster as the Biblical one.

*I challenge atheists who read this commentary to closely examine their own feelings and make an honest assessment of their views. Unless you are of the opinion that diversity in beliefs—i.e., a mixture of Christianity and atheism among the world population—is a good thing, then you must feel that religion, in itself, is bad.*

Correct.

*In contrast, while Christians think atheism is bad, they know that Jesus said we’d always have evil among us. They are therefore willing to accept the existence of atheism. Atheists, however, believe that the extinction of Christianity is a real possibility. They are therefore more likely to be against a diversity of beliefs in society and will do whatever they can to eliminate the Christian element, even to the point of eventually outlawing it.*

Christians say atheists deserves death. You know that. I think Christianity deserves death - but not Christians. Outlawing it is against the 1st Amendment.

*I almost didn’t include this particular commentary in this series about atheism. It addresses the problems atheists have encountered trying to gain political clout in the United States. I had concerns that I might, in effect, be giving atheists a blueprint as to how they could turn things around and start winning elections. But when I discussed these things with the atheists on message boards a few months ago, I came away convinced that I had nothing to worry about. While many atheists desire political power, almost none of the ones I spoke with were willing to do what it takes to obtain it. Therefore, I no longer worry that I might be helping the opposition by reprinting my ideas here.*

I, personally, seek power. But I had the ideas neccessary long before I saw this page. You neednt wory.

*Recent polls indicate that atheism is, by far, the worst quality a political candidate can have, beating out racism and Communism combined. It’s a fact that most of the public perceives atheists as a Nazi-like brigade trying to destroy everything good about America, including the Constitution, churches and the family unit.*

Pathetic, isn't it?

*The voting public clearly doesn’t like atheists. So, atheists have to either change their beliefs—which I’m sure they don’t want to do—or expect to lose a percentage of the vote because of it. Unfortunately for atheist candidates, that percentage would be close to 90% of the total vote.*

Source?

*But there’s a third possibility. Atheists can try to change the public’s perception of what atheism means. Right now, the public thinks atheism means “people who make a lot of trouble for religious people.” Atheists need to change that perception to “people who believe everyone should be free to believe what they want to.” The best way to do that is to project an image of tolerance. The public loves to stand up for tolerance—and so do most politicians. If this approach were to be taken, eventually it would became just as terrible to hate an atheist for his beliefs as it is now to hate a black person because of the color of his skin.*

#you# think that. The public may not. It is as terrible to hate someone for personal beliefs as for their skin. I think a quote from Kennedy is appropriate here: I believe in an America where the seperation of Church and State is absolute - where no Catholic Prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote -- where no church or church school is granted public funds or political preference -- and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the public who might elect him.

*But for the image of tolerance to take hold, atheists must be willing to display tolerance, themselves. Just as Martin Luther King, Jr., stood up, faced his fellow blacks and said violence isn’t right, some brave atheist needs to stand up, face his fellow atheists and say that bashing religious people isn’t the answer.*

I, personally, despise religon. But that does not entail me acting politically against it - much as Lincoln, personally despised slavery - he was not entailed acting politically against it.

*But the problem is that no atheist is willing to take that step. Bashing Christians and Christianity is something they just don’t want to give up. So the result is that the public will not change its views of atheism, and atheists will always have zero political power. And rightfully so. *

Spoken like a true Crusader.

*Sadly, tolerance just doesn’t fit into the atheistic agenda.*

Much the same could be said of the Bible.

*Abraham Lincoln once asked the members of his cabinet, “How many legs does a dog have if you count the tail?”

One by one, each of his advisors answered, “Five.”

“Wrong,” said the President. “The answer is four. Calling the tail a leg doesn’t make it one.”*

Abraham Lincoln also said "The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of the Christian dogma."

Cute who you are quoting, no? Pity the fellow is now in hell. John 3:16, you know.

*To an atheist, the rock you are holding in your hand might not actually be there. It might be dreamed up by your imagination. In fact, the entire world that you believe exists might be nothing more than a series of images fed into your brain, which might actually be in a jar in a laboratory somewhere on another planet. The atheist might give you all sorts of arguments to convince you that the rock doesn’t exist, based mostly on your own inability to prove to him that the rock does exist and that you aren’t just a brain in a jar. Even if you were to knock him over the head with the rock, you probably won’t be able to convince him that the stone is real.*

Solipism was disproved long ago.

*But no matter what the atheist says, you know that the rock does exist, and that his words can’t change that physical fact.*

I can touch and see the rock - I havent seen a god yet.

*So it is with God. Atheists create all sorts of “logical” arguments to convince others that God doesn’t exist, as if mere agreement between humans can cause God to disappear. But the world doesn’t work that way. The Supreme Being is a physical and spiritual part of the universe, as real as the rock in your hand. Saying He doesn’t exist is like calling the dog’s tail a leg. Thinking doesn’t make it so.*

Prove it.

*Atheists, thusly, place themselves in a hole that isn’t as much a refuge as it is a prison. If there are no absolutes in the world, then the universe, itself, can’t be depended on. It’s a vicious circle of thinking that feeds on itself, and an atheist ends up like a dog chasing its tail.*

I go with what can be proven. The Universe can be tested. God, be definition, cannot.

*After reading these commentaries, some of you Christians might consider venturing into the world of atheist message boards*

I habitually go to Christian boards. Odd how the majority of them claim they aren't qualified to debate the Bible.

* so, then I urge you to read again what I said earlier concerning the dangers therein. They aren’t altogether pretty places and you’ll likely be shocked at some of the posts you will read there. If you cringe—as I still do—at references to Jesus as “the man on a stick,” or Mary as a “whore for angels,” or God as “gawd,” then I suggest you not go there. As I said earlier, the favorite weapon of atheists is ridicule, and most use it to the extreme, along with blasphemies and insults carefully selected for their shock value. Atheists love to make Christians mad.*

More technically, I consider Christ a figment of your imagination, Mary a woman raped by God, and God as a sadistic meglomanic. Just so we're clear.

*If you can withstand the ridicule, then some atheists will actually listen to what you have to say. Atheists aren’t demons, they are simply misguided people, and they can be every bit as friendly and as thoughtful as anybody else. Many atheists are actually there to exchange ideas with Christians and other theists and will gladly explain to you the “reasoning” behind their philosophy.*

Provide proof of misguidance and lack of reasoning.

* The same can be said for Christians who, in a “fire and brimstone” manner, quote a lot of Scripture or cut-and-paste long passages from articles they’ve found elsewhere on the Internet. Such posts will either go unread or, in some cases, be deleted within minutes of their appearance. *

Or, my personal favorite, debated until they run away.

*Finally, there are going to be times when you disagree with your fellow Christians while on an atheist message board. When that happens, please remember that Jesus said that those who are not against us are with us. Let’s don’t argue about relatively minor differences in Christian philosophy. A good rule is this: If the outcome of the argument will have no affect on changing the minds of the atheists who are present, it probably would be better to just let the matter slide.

Again, I don’t recommend you visit, nor post, on any atheist message board.*

Dont forgot Jesus is a racist, too. Mark 7:27. I recommend atheists visit, post, any christian board. It passes the time wonderfully.

*The reasons are embedded within things they can’t—or refuse to—see and feel. For thousands of years, billions of people have acknowledged what atheists have stubbornly denied, that there is a Supreme Being Who watches over the universe and loves what He has created. *

Does he have a fax? Email? Phone Number? Some proof of his existence? Id believe if all of Africa was cured, or there were pillars of flame 10 miles high in the sky. Why is God hiding from the skeptics?

*Even science, upon which atheists depend entirely for guidance, can’t discredit Him, and no counter-philosophy can make Him go away.*

I cant, and dont have to, prove a negative. You claim he exists. Prove it. In much the same way Id have to prove the dragon under my bed exists.

~J

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-07-19 05:30am

Ok, don't let it be said that I didn't think you did good, but... posting it five times?

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2003-07-19 08:54am

I think you just set a post record Enforcer Talen.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-07-19 09:08am

Holy shit Talen, that's alot of stuff to post so many times...

I just remembered something, you should quote the findings of that institute that experimented with how immoral atheists were compared to xians. You know, the one that failed miserably?

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-07-19 09:20am

This one is good:

You'll have no problem if I demand you and other women surrender power, as per 1 Timothy 2:11-12, demand you delete this website because silence is your due, and demand you act as a sex toy, in Romans 1:27, of course.

-snaps fingers- now, woman! You must obey men!

victorhadin · Post by **victorhadin** » 2003-07-19 09:37am

A rather beautiful response there, if I might say so. You kept your calm and acted with maturity throughout, in spite of some of the more 'aggressive' tracts she gave.

I am impressed at the Bible references. I, personally, having never read the entirity of the damned thing, would be unable, and would swerve instead towards the scientific 'burden of proof' analysis alone. Your nature as an ex-Christian was certainly useful ("know thine enemy"?

)

Congratulations.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-07-19 09:46am

extra posts deleted. Phew.. I should ask Mike for a raise. How much is 10% of nothing?

victorhadin · Post by **victorhadin** » 2003-07-19 10:56am

Inspired by this thread, I decided to pay a visit to a Christian chatroom, posing as a chap interested in learning about Christianity, possibly as a prelude to converting. I asked two questions:

1) Why, basically, are the natures of the Old and New testament so different.
2) If, in your life, you have converted to Christianity, why?

Sadly, I failed to record the entire conversation, but the answers I got for part 1) were, variously:

-Due to differences in translation and customs.
-The Old testament was *meant* to be like that, to pave the way for the arrival of Jesus.
-(After some prompting on my part) theirs was a difficult and a barbaric time. The laws of the New testament were for these modern times.

Question 2) was answered by only one, who commented that he/ she left Christianity when younger due to rebelliousness and returned to the fold after seeing how his/ her personal morality suffered.

The subject then diverged a bit, with the mention of Satan and how, as an atheist, I was unwittingly serving Satan by not believing in Christianity. This, they said, also applied to other denominations and religions; they were all, in effect, servants of Satan, though they did not know it.

Jokingly, I asked about Buddhists and the response was that, yes, they worshipped false idols and served Satan.

Another comment was made that Muslims, by following Allah, also served Satan.

I bid a polite farewell, asking, as a final request, for them to list "the best thing about Christianity". The responses were, variously, "The Kingdom of Heaven", "having Jesus care for you always" and an offer to pray for me to accept Jesus and change my life.

They were all nice people, though the comments on serving Satan were disturbing.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-07-19 10:59am

I look forward to his answers

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-07-19 01:06pm

I look forward to Talen rebuting it.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2003-07-19 03:07pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:extra posts deleted. Phew.. I should ask Mike for a raise. How much is 10% of nothing?

Naw demand 35% or threaten to hand over the responsibilities to me

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-07-19 03:38pm

Faram wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote:extra posts deleted. Phew.. I should ask Mike for a raise. How much is 10% of nothing?
Naw demand 35% or threaten to hand over the responsibilities to me

Ah crap...

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-07-19 03:42pm

Why would you want to be an ex-atheist,when you are an ex-catholic.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 05:17pm

victorhadin wrote:Inspired by this thread, I decided to pay a visit to a Christian chatroom, posing as a chap interested in learning about Christianity, possibly as a prelude to converting. I asked two questions:

1) Why, basically, are the natures of the Old and New testament so different.
2) If, in your life, you have converted to Christianity, why?

Sadly, I failed to record the entire conversation, but the answers I got for part 1) were, variously:

-Due to differences in translation and customs.
-The Old testament was *meant* to be like that, to pave the way for the arrival of Jesus.
-(After some prompting on my part) theirs was a difficult and a barbaric time. The laws of the New testament were for these modern times.

Question 2) was answered by only one, who commented that he/ she left Christianity when younger due to rebelliousness and returned to the fold after seeing how his/ her personal morality suffered.

The subject then diverged a bit, with the mention of Satan and how, as an atheist, I was unwittingly serving Satan by not believing in Christianity. This, they said, also applied to other denominations and religions; they were all, in effect, servants of Satan, though they did not know it.

Jokingly, I asked about Buddhists and the response was that, yes, they worshipped false idols and served Satan.

Another comment was made that Muslims, by following Allah, also served Satan.

I bid a polite farewell, asking, as a final request, for them to list "the best thing about Christianity". The responses were, variously, "The Kingdom of Heaven", "having Jesus care for you always" and an offer to pray for me to accept Jesus and change my life.

They were all nice people, though the comments on serving Satan were disturbing.

an easy boot to the head for fundies - luke 16:17.

sorry - your going to hell for not sacrificing weekly. you lose.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 05:21pm

Kitsune wrote:This one is good:

You'll have no problem if I demand you and other women surrender power, as per 1 Timothy 2:11-12, demand you delete this website because silence is your due, and demand you act as a sex toy, in Romans 1:27, of course.

-snaps fingers- now, woman! You must obey men!

I did a much longer one at kg, when I was pissed:

-pulls on welding mask- flame on, people.

so, you completely agree with the bible? lets go on our checklist.

first off, women shouldnt be in power. says so in Isiah 3:12 - things destroy the ways of his people's paths, and that includes women ruling over them. I expect you to call on the de-modding of godsgirl4eternity, cuz she is sinning and leading us away from righteousness.

hop to it, girl.

although, I dont expect you to do much. your just a girl. a coward, really. girls like to hide behind their skirts. isiah 9:16. are you frightened like a woman to do whats really right?

dont speak, little coward, not until you gain more of a spine. in fact, dont speak at all. 1 timothy 2:11. dont speak at all, and learn from your betters, such as myself and 1superjesusfreak. we are men, and know the ways of the world better then you. god even values us more, as seen in leviticus 27:3-4.

I think one can safely call you abomination, as per Deuteronomy 22:5. I expect youve worn pants. even if you havent, obey your betters. man was set over you, as in genesis 3:16. speaking of that verse, if you ever have a child, dont use anathestic. that pain is your *curse*, woman, by god, for the damnable sin of eve. dont hide from god's righteous fury.

stay in silence, abomination, and help your masters. genesis 2:20-22 demands it. obey them at all times, and do not tempt them, for that is the way of women. conniving, wicked temptresses. only if a man is pure can he enter the kingdom of heaven. revelation 14:3-4 - to lay with a woman is to be defiled.

your job in this life, woman, is to serve men - 1 peter 3:1, and to spawn more men - 1 timothy 2:13-15. listen in silence as I teach you of the word of god. first corinthians 11:8-9 tells you how to act for us. and in romans 1:27, you will learn that your natural use is a male's sexual object. a pity you've learned how to read -its not necessary for the pleasure of the man.

to be a women is to be the lowest in heirarchy - to a man, to be called a woman, particularly a menstruating woman, is an insult. lamentations 1:17. you will learn this as you submit. and definitly not try to tempt your betters - your evil wiles are a sin, and seduction is a sign of the devil. provers 7:5-27.

there. I think she will serve MANkind better now.

~

it was in response to:

southern_chick wrote:

You know what, GOOD FOR GOVERNOR PERRY!!!!!!!!! I support him completely!

AIIF-Yuri wrote:

Actually, I think you should re-evaluate your sense of morality... if it exists. Why would you deny someone civil liberties based on sexual orientation?

southern_chick wrote:

it is written all over the Bible against gays and homosexuals, so I support and believe and most importantly , LIVE what the Bible says. there is nothing wrong with gays but we shouldn't have to stoop down so low as to support them.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 05:23pm

victorhadin wrote:A rather beautiful response there, if I might say so. You kept your calm and acted with maturity throughout, in spite of some of the more 'aggressive' tracts she gave.

I am impressed at the Bible references. I, personally, having never read the entirity of the damned thing, would be unable, and would swerve instead towards the scientific 'burden of proof' analysis alone. Your nature as an ex-Christian was certainly useful ("know thine enemy"? )

Congratulations.

after I got mauled by wong in a bible debate, I became an atheist - now I maul fundies in chats. Ive gotten very good.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-07-19 05:34pm

This is good, Talen, but it looks to me like you're loosing your cool. Fundies can smell that, and they draw strength from it.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-07-19 05:39pm

I am the zen master.

last time I got really pissed was in rr chat, during the beginning of my career.

I flame, but Im not angry.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-07-19 05:49pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:also interesting:

http://petitecute.home.att.net/atheismp.htm

I think that site's a load of bullshit. There are no direct quotes, no names, not even usernames, and no specific board mentionings. How pathetic.