Try and top this guy.....

[Shadow WarChief]

me:

Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
-Chronicles2, 4:2

And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
-Kings, 7:23

pi = circumference / diamater

c= 30
d=10

30/10 = 3

meaning according to the passges, <pi>=3

The bible was wrong

Idiot extroardinaire:

Your Pi calculations "proving" the bible is wrong.

If Pi = c/d
and if c/d = 3
You basically are saying that a cubit = Pi

Honestly, this is the single greatest instance of stupiditiy I've seen anywhere. Has anyone ever run into anything this bad? I know you guys all run into loads of crap that approach this magnitude, but has anyone ever run into this magnitude of crap before? Nothing I've seen in this forum has come close to this so please post some instances of equal stupidity so that I may despair the future of humanity more so than I do already...

[Yuri Prime]

wtf? Did this guy not make it through first year algebra? That killed some brain cells... You should smite him. And yes, people have told me before that my calculations are wrong because the bible is perfect.

[Enforcer Talen]

arguing hitler wasnt a christian, despite speeches, documents, and actions.

arguing god isnt a sadist, even when provided with the nasty verses from ezekiel.

arguing homosexuality isnt genetic.

Ive seen all of these in the last 30 minutes.

welcome to hsd.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I recommend you follow the directions I posted in this thread.

Remember, don't forget the Clorox!

[Darth Servo]

He's a fundie. Therefore he's probably a complete moron. What else needs to be said?

[Dorsk 81]

Sadly, my arguments are usualy no where near as intelectual as that.
I just get flooded with "U R GAY" crap.

[htg]

me:

Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
-Chronicles2, 4:2

And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
-Kings, 7:23

pi = circumference / diamater

c= 30
d=10

30/10 = 3

meaning according to the passges, <pi>=3

The bible was wrong

Idiot extroardinaire:

Your Pi calculations "proving" the bible is wrong.

If Pi = c/d
and if c/d = 3
You basically are saying that a cubit = Pi

Honestly, this is the single greatest instance of stupiditiy I've seen anywhere. Has anyone ever run into anything this bad? I know you guys all run into loads of crap that approach this magnitude, but has anyone ever run into this magnitude of crap before? Nothing I've seen in this forum has come close to this so please post some instances of equal stupidity so that I may despair the future of humanity more so than I do already...

I'd like to point out that the response wasn't significantly less intelligent than the original post. The biblical authors of Kings and Chronicles managed to come up with values that have an error of less than 5%, not bad considering that was during an era when the decimal point was not in common usage.

Also, even today 3 is considered an acceptable approximation for pi for quick estimates. Only the pervasiveness of calculators allows us to use 3.14159... regularly.

Since I have just proven the scientific accuracy of the Bible, can I assume that you will now accept the rest of scripture as accurate too? Including the creation account in Genesis, amongst other things? (That was, I believe, the exact reverse of the argument WarChief was using on the Fundy, and I'm not proposing that seriously.)

Henk G.

[neoolong]

Actually unless the person was measuring pretty badly, there wouldn't have been a margin of error to that degree.

[RedImperator]

Nowhere have I EVER seen 3 considered an acceptable approximation of pi. 3.14 is as rough as I've seen, and that's a trivial calcultion with pencil and paper. The pi=3 gaffe doesn't overturn the entire Bible, but it does overturn the Bible's supposed literal perfection.

[Wicked Pilot]

The biblical authors of Kings and Chronicles managed to come up with values that have an error of less than 5%, not bad considering that was during an era when the decimal point was not in common usage..

Stupid red herring. Take away the decimal point and the circumference of 31.4... would be 31, not 30.

Also, even today 3 is considered an acceptable approximation for pi for quick estimates. Only the pervasiveness of calculators allows us to use 3.14159... regularly.

Bullshit, when I first learned pi in middle school, it was 3.14 or 22/7, nothing else. And yes I did all calucalations back then solely without the calculator, using those significant digits. Not all of us need calculators to do such easy math. Obviousily by your post, some of us do.

[Sindai]

(That was, I believe, the exact reverse of the argument WarChief was using on the Fundy, and I'm not proposing that seriously.)

Actually, I would assume that the fundamentalist claimed that the Bible was - every word - literal truth, and WarChief was disproving that assertion. You don't seem very familiar with the way this type of debate usually goes.

[Master of Ossus]

JEEESUS Christ. What the hell is that guy on?

Extinguish it painfully.

[SoX]

for arguments sake, lets say they measured the circumference perfectly,,,that would mean that they would have had to measure the diameter to 9.5492 cubits etc,,,which im guessing, in them times was pretty hard,, (tho i guess god could prolly do it, maybe he should have told them they were slightly out)... they had an error of 4.7%,,,which is less than 5%,,, now in modern day DNA tests or Fingerprinting etc,,, (i hate stats, but unfortunately its what i get my highest mathematics grade in) they use a 5% significance buffer,, that is to say,,that if you're 5% out is that down to chance?, and if ure less that 5% then ure ok... or not in the case of the criminal,... I aint no fundie,,but gettin Pi to that is pretty good,,, but im sure that greek guy did it another way,,drawing octagons and then nonagons n so on,,adding more sides to a shape until it was practically a cirlce,, he found pi that way,,and that was very damn accurate.

[RedImperator]

for arguments sake, lets say they measured the circumference perfectly,,,that would mean that they would have had to measure the radius to 9.5492 cubits etc,,,which im guessing, in them times was pretty hard,, (tho i guess god could prolly do it, maybe he should have told them they were slightly out)... they had an error of 4.7%,,,which is less than 5%,,, now in modern day DNA tests or Fingerprinting etc,,, (i hate stats, but unfortunately its what i get my highest mathematics grade in) they use a 5% significance buffer,, that is to say,,that if you're 5% out is that down to chance?, and if ure less that 5% then ure ok... or not in the case of the criminal,... I aint no fundie,,but gettin Pi to that is pretty good,,, but im sure that greek guy did it another way,,drawing octagons and then nonagons n so on,,adding more sides to a shape until it was practically a cirlce,, he found pi that way,,and that was very damn accurate.

Which is fine, except if the Bible is literarally perfect, than a 5% margin of error isn't enough. It's not as if the ancient Hebrews were the only people ever to think pi was exactly equal to three, and really it doesn't matter, but for anyone who insists the Bible is perfectly, literarally true and accurate, than pi=3 is a problem. That's why most fundies with any sort of theological training work out a convoluted system for explaining why some parts of the Bible are more equal than others. Pi=3 is only really useful for knocking down Internet wankers who don't know theology any better than they do science.

[LadyTevar]

The biblical authors of Kings and Chronicles managed to come up with values that have an error of less than 5%, not bad considering that was during an era when the decimal point was not in common usage..

Stupid red herring. Take away the decimal point and the circumference of 31.4... would be 31, not 30.

Also, even today 3 is considered an acceptable approximation for pi for quick estimates. Only the pervasiveness of calculators allows us to use 3.14159... regularly.

Bullshit, when I first learned pi in middle school, it was 3.14 or 22/7, nothing else. And yes I did all calucalations back then solely without the calculator, using those significant digits. Not all of us need calculators to do such easy math. Obviousily by your post, some of us do.

.... I still need a calculator for 'such easy math'. However, any topic that would have fallen under history or 'social studies' I find far easier.
Still, 3.14 was what I was taught to use in my LongForm, no calculators except slide rulers mathematics, and what I still consider to be the easiest explaination of Pi.

[FOG3]

IIRC cubits isn't exactly a highly accurate measurement to start out with. It's literally from the forearm to the tip of the middle finger.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

JEEESUS Christ. What the hell is that guy on?

Extinguish it painfully.

With pleasure.

Jesus H Christ Riding Satan's Cock! That's the STUPIDEST creationist argument I'm EVER HEARD IN MY NET.LIFE!!!!

Please for the love of the Goddess, follow these directions:

1. Visit this URL: http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/2,192.html

2. Buy LART of your choice from said URL using a bank card. (I recommend the 8lb (Head) Splitting Maul.)

3. Use newly-acquired LART forcefully and repeatedly on the Creationist troll until it stops moving.

4. Clean up red liquid splattered everywhere with Clorox bleach.

[HemlockGrey]

I once observed a frantic attempt to deny that the Earth's crust was composed of tectonic plates, solely by claiming that earthquakes would knock everything down', so no, this does not even begin to plumb the depths of stupidity.

[Slartibartfast]

Also, even today 3 is considered an acceptable approximation for pi for quick estimates. Only the pervasiveness of calculators allows us to use 3.14159... regularly.

This isn't about accuracy with the decimal point or whatever. The original author of the text wasn't deducing the diameter from the circumference or vice-versa. He HAD those values. He used whatever measure and walked around the thing to measure it, then across, or did an estimate, or whatever, and there's just no way that the result would be so inaccurate, WITHOUT USING DECIMALS AT ALL.

So either the circumference is over 31 cubits or the diameter is less than 10 cubits. Besides this is meant to prove wrong, BIBLICAL INERRANCY, which says that it's 100% perfectly correct. People didn't know PI, but GOD should have.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

.... I still need a calculator for 'such easy math'. However, any topic that would have fallen under history or 'social studies' I find far easier.
Still, 3.14 was what I was taught to use in my LongForm, no calculators except slide rulers mathematics, and what I still consider to be the easiest explaination of Pi.

The easiest explanation of Pi, I'd humbly submit, is the symbol, because anything else is either inaccurate or impossible to reasonably work with.

[htg]

Let's try it from a slightly different angle. Why should I let your perception of my perception of Biblical inerrancy influence me? Over my life I've read through the Bible far more than ten times, in four different languages (English, French, German and Dutch). I've been going to church twice a sunday for nearly 25 years, listening to sermons every time (fairly dry, half-hour essays that were actually researched (no touchy-feelly, or hellfire and brimstone sermons in my federation)). I have had religious (Bible) classes all through Elementary and Secondary school, and (just to establish my intelligence, if my language skills hadn't proved that already) managed to complete a B.Eng. degree in University.

In short, why should these kind of arguments, almost certainly based on a lesser knowledge of the Bible, hold any water with me (or with other Christians)? Especially ones based on 30/10 does not equal pi?

I suppose you want my explanation for the 5% error in circumference? Probably nobody took a tape to it, and the writer didn't feel like calculating out using (16/9)^2, the contemporary Egyptian estimate for pi. Even that is a trivial calculation, but there's a reason why everybody's using our current Arabic Numeral system. Compared to anything that came before, it rocks. And the Hebrews didn't have that advantage... I imagine they'd much rather estimate using 3. That's a trivial calculation in any system.

By the way, you people forgot to mention (in this thread, at least) the flat earth, the pillars of the earth, and the motion of the sun. They're much better proofs of Biblical scientific errancy than this. And why God didn't correct those scientific errors, as well as the pi error of this thread? They're all tied together, and if you want it, I can explain in another post.

Henk G.

P.S.

You don't seem very familiar with the way this type of debate usually goes.

Oh, but I am. There's a huge long debate, eventually degenerating into a flame war (looks like Master of Ossus and Sn0m4n got an early start on that part), with neither side having convinced the other, but both being sure they won.

P.P.S. I will agree (with most of the rest of you) that there's lots of interesting theories (and some just plain bad science) making the rounds of the fundy community. However, it doesn't mean they're all wrong, nor that fundies are, as a rule, stupid.

[mauldooku]

Let's try it from a slightly different angle. Why should I let your perception of my perception of Biblical inerrancy influence me? Over my life I've read through the Bible far more than ten times, in four different languages (English, French, German and Dutch). I've been going to church twice a sunday for nearly 25 years, listening to sermons every time (fairly dry, half-hour essays that were actually researched (no touchy-feelly, or hellfire and brimstone sermons in my federation)). I have had religious (Bible) classes all through Elementary and Secondary school, and (just to establish my intelligence, if my language skills hadn't proved that already) managed to complete a B.Eng. degree in University.

In short, why should these kind of arguments, almost certainly based on a lesser knowledge of the Bible, hold any water with me (or with other Christians)? Especially ones based on 30/10 does not equal pi?

I suppose you want my explanation for the 5% error in circumference? Probably nobody took a tape to it, and the writer didn't feel like calculating out using (16/9)^2, the contemporary Egyptian estimate for pi. Even that is a trivial calculation, but there's a reason why everybody's using our current Arabic Numeral system. Compared to anything that came before, it rocks. And the Hebrews didn't have that advantage... I imagine they'd much rather estimate using 3. That's a trivial calculation in any system.

By the way, you people forgot to mention (in this thread, at least) the flat earth, the pillars of the earth, and the motion of the sun. They're much better proofs of Biblical scientific errancy than this. And why God didn't correct those scientific errors, as well as the pi error of this thread? They're all tied together, and if you want it, I can explain in another post.

Henk G.

P.S.

You don't seem very familiar with the way this type of debate usually goes.

Oh, but I am. There's a huge long debate, eventually degenerating into a flame war (looks like Master of Ossus and Sn0m4n got an early start on that part), with neither side having convinced the other, but both being sure they won.

P.P.S. I will agree (with most of the rest of you) that there's lots of interesting theories (and some just plain bad science) making the rounds of the fundy community. However, it doesn't mean they're all wrong, nor that fundies are, as a rule, stupid.

Sure it does

[FOG3]

Possibility, the circumference is correct and the diameter was rounded up. I mean how do you mark off fractions of the length from your elbow to the tip of your middle finger? It's an imprecise measurement to start out with.

[Sindai]

Oh, but I am. There's a huge long debate, eventually degenerating into a flame war (looks like Master of Ossus and Sn0m4n got an early start on that part), with neither side having convinced the other, but both being sure they won.

Few people get into an online debate expecting to convince the other guy. The important part is to make your points the better ones so that any observers who happen to be on the fence end up falling on the right side of it.

By the way, you people forgot to mention (in this thread, at least) the flat earth, the pillars of the earth, and the motion of the sun. They're much better proofs of Biblical scientific errancy than this. And why God didn't correct those scientific errors, as well as the pi error of this thread? They're all tied together, and if you want it, I can explain in another post.

While I'm sure everyone will be extremely interested in this, I would suggest you create a new thread for it. This one has gone off-topic enough as it is.

[Crown]

Even that is a trivial calculation, but there's a reason why everybody's using our current Arabic Numeral system. Compared to anything that came before, it rocks. And the Hebrews didn't have that advantage... I imagine they'd much rather estimate using 3. That's a trivial calculation in any system.

Aha, neither did the ancient Egyptians, nor the Ancient Greeks, nor the Ancient Chinese, and yet strangly they all seemed to know that π != 3. Sorry you're point was wortless, it was without worth. And also it wasn't the point of contention, this being we are give measurements for the diameter and measurements for the circumfrence, since we know that π != 3 (as these measurements would suggest), it is a perfectly logical conclusion to infere that the bible is not literary truth without errors.

Glad we could clear that up for you.