[USELESS PHILOSOPHICAL BULLSHIT] The Origins of Mathematics

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-04 12:32pm

Is math something that humans discovered (i.e. does it exist on its own?), or was it invented by humans to describe the universe?

Discuss.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-10-04 12:44pm

It exists.

Aliens from the zeta galaxy will divide the the perimeter of a circle by its diameter and obtain the exact same number as we do.

Math is not a social construct, such as language, history, etc.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-04 01:30pm

it was always there but it was put into a language by humans.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-04 03:14pm

Math doesn't kill people, mathamaticions kill people.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-10-04 03:33pm

Agreed with above, written math isn't a social thing, it's a tool which allows us to help keep track of calculations our brains can't do without writing parts down to help us remember.

If you want to discuss its historical origins, you could place the original use of mathematics (basic addition and subtraction) with the earliest humans.

Human-made art exists (damn, my kingdom for a link) that shows marks next to animals - likely the world's first inventory sheet. As the concept of 'private property' was invented, with it came the need to keep track of what was yours. Calendars and inventory would have been the most important use of written math.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-10-05 02:40pm

Mm.. Facts and figures exist on their own. How we represent them and the processes needed to arrive at that conclusion are somewhat social, but those facts and figures can always be represented in a way that is understood by all, given a ground-up basis.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-10-05 03:46pm

Some aspects of mathematics were arbitrarily invented. For example: right-hand rule. Anyone who has taken vector calculus knows what the right-hand rule and its related cross-product is. The z-axis is defined as the cross-product of x and y(not y and x, since it's not communtative). However, if the right-hand rule started out as a "left-hand rule", many descriptive aspects would be much different. Physics, for example, uses the right-hand rule for things from torque to magnetic force. While a rule change would not alter the universe, it definitely would drastically alter how we describe the universe.