The War On Tobacco

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Lots of news here in Arizona today. Proposition 303 passed, which means (according to the proverbial Mon On The Street) that cigarette prices are headed from $4+/pack to $10+/pack.

Do you support the criminalization of cigarettes? Do you think tobacco should be taxed out of the budget of the average consumer? Why or why not?

[Kuja]

My Aunt chainsmokes. I can hardly stand to be in the same room as her, even though I love her. If the price went up, she'd probably quit.

[Mr Bean]

Criminislation? No High Taxtion

Preferbly $5 a Pack $50 a Carton if possible I want to suck as much money out of you as possible before you manage to slowly kill yourself via Cancer... dumb fucks

[Mr Bean]

BTW the Money would be spent teaching the Next generation what idiots there parents where and hopefuly they will learn somthing

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Are you sure that's ethical, though? What if we did that with pornagraphic magazines? Knowing full well that making them completely illegal would be unworkable, what if we just jack the price up to $200 an issue? Nobody gets to vote on it. It just happens. All of a sudden, you can't get porn mags anymore, not because they're illegal, but because the stores just don't carry them anymore because they don't sell. Does that sound good to all of you? Or does that sound like a sneaky, underhanded chickenshit play to get around the rules?

[Mr Bean]

Are you sure that's ethical, though? What if we did that with pornagraphic magazines? Knowing full well that making them completely illegal would be unworkable, what if we just jack the price up to $200 an issue? Nobody gets to vote on it. It just happens. All of a sudden, you can't get porn mags anymore, not because they're illegal, but because the stores just don't carry them anymore because they don't sell. Does that sound good to all of you? Or does that sound like a sneaky, underhanded chickenshit play to get around the rules?

No No Raoul theres a diffrence

Smoking has no, read em NO Benfits at all, All it is, is an increably slow and painful method of killing yourself

I'm all for legal Sucided in slow and painful ways but if your going to go, your damn well going to pay for the next 30 Years you would have been paying taxs for had you not killed yourself via ten years of smoking and six very painful years of Cancer

[aerius]

Let'em smoke as much as they want, but deny the smokers any healthcare or insurance coverage when they start suffering from smoking related health problems. If they can't pay for hospital care, too bad, they die. And get rid of all those lawsuits where the dumbass smokers sue for damages, you'd have to be a complete fucking idiot if you don't know that smoking fucks up your health and eventually kills you. If they start smoking, they gotta live with the consequences. It sounds pretty harsh, but smokers and people in general have to understand that the rest of society is not there to coddle them and be all sympathetic when they're actively fucking up their own lives with a filthy habit.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I agree with Aerius, and I smoke. Yes, it's a bad habit. And yes, I understand that there are consequences. But I also understand that the people who draft these props don't give a fuck about my health, or about taxes. This kind of diabolical shit is a war on my right to choose. I know who my mother and father are, and these Disney-ass fuckwits who want to turn everyone into Care Bear clones are not them.

[Mr Bean]

But I also understand that the people who draft these props don't give a fuck about my health, or about taxes. This kind of diabolical shit is a war on my right to choose. I know who my mother and father are, and these Disney-ass fuckwits who want to turn everyone into Care Bear clones are not them.

You have a right to choose Raoul but WE have a Right to Tax you and frankly your doing your best to duck fourty years of good taxation we could be getting out of you, In real-life people take it the wrong way to fucking easily so I say nothing but on the Internet when you can't put a face to the words and mearly remeber the words and thus prehaps acutal understand them better

You are killing yourself
You get NOTHING out of the Deal
And its Expensive
It would be cheaper to poke yourself in the Eye with a Pointy Stick every hour on the hour, Why in Bobs name do you smoke?

[Admiral Drason]

Im just sick of my rights being taken away every time some one does something stupid.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Making tobacco illegal would only make more problems (and isn't the tobacco plant used for other purposes?)

I say higher taxation. Like $10 a pack.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

But I also understand that the people who draft these props don't give a fuck about my health, or about taxes. This kind of diabolical shit is a war on my right to choose. I know who my mother and father are, and these Disney-ass fuckwits who want to turn everyone into Care Bear clones are not them.

You have a right to choose Raoul but WE have a Right to Tax you and frankly your doing your best to duck fourty years of good taxation we could be getting out of you, In real-life people take it the wrong way to fucking easily so I say nothing but on the Internet when you can't put a face to the words and mearly remeber the words and thus prehaps acutal understand them better

You are killing yourself
You get NOTHING out of the Deal
And its Expensive
It would be cheaper to poke yourself in the Eye with a Pointy Stick every hour on the hour, Why in Bobs name do you smoke?

There is really only one reason I continue to smoke, Bean. Because there are people out there who wish I could not. That's the only reason I won't go on the batch, buy the gum and leave the shit alone.

But your reply up there is flawed, Bean, and I'll tell you why: it's based on the assumption that the government has a right to force me to live so that I'll pay taxes. And thank you for bringing me around that corner, because it also shows me that these tax increases devalue human life. I'll put it like this:

If the anti-smoking agenda had human life and health as its highest goal, tobacco would be outlawed. It's not about life, Bean. It's about money. They know we're hooked, and now they're going to suck us like the fucking parasites they are.

It's despicable.

[Master of Ossus]

Don't feel sorry for the Tobacco industry. They just went to other countries to sell their products. As a result, HALF of all the former Soviet teenagers, now smoke, as well as huge numbers of Asians and Western Europeans.

[Darth Wong]

Im just sick of my rights being taken away every time some one does something stupid.

No one's rights are being taken away. Smokers consume a disproportionate amount of health-care expenses, so they have to pony up and pay more. They still have the "right" to smoke, which I quite frankly consider questionable (does your child get to choose whether to grow up in a smoke-free house?)

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Im just sick of my rights being taken away every time some one does something stupid.

No one's rights are being taken away. Smokers consume a disproportionate amount of health-care expenses, so they have to pony up and pay more. They still have the "right" to smoke, which I quite frankly consider questionable (does your child get to choose whether to grow up in a smoke-free house?)

As a matter of fact, no, my children have no options in this area. I smoke outdoors. If they are with me outdoors, I do not smoke. They will never see me smoke, they will never see my cigarettes. They have no choice.

[Darth Wong]

No one's rights are being taken away. Smokers consume a disproportionate amount of health-care expenses, so they have to pony up and pay more. They still have the "right" to smoke, which I quite frankly consider questionable (does your child get to choose whether to grow up in a smoke-free house?)

As a matter of fact, no, my children have no options in this area. I smoke outdoors. If they are with me outdoors, I do not smoke. They will never see me smoke, they will never see my cigarettes. They have no choice.

I know it's your life to live, but your children are neither blind or stupid, nor is their sense of smell destroyed. If they don't already know about your habit, they will figure it out sooner or later. The chance of them picking up your habit is vastly greater than if you don't set that example. I've known many people who tried to hide their habit from their kids.

[Mr Bean]

But your reply up there is flawed, Bean, and I'll tell you why: it's based on the assumption that the government has a right to force me to live so that I'll pay taxes. And thank you for bringing me around that corner, because it also shows me that these tax increases devalue human life. I'll put it like this:

If the anti-smoking agenda had human life and health as its highest goal, tobacco would be outlawed. It's not about life, Bean. It's about money. They know we're hooked, and now they're going to suck us like the fucking parasites they are.

Damn strait its about Money However the fact of the Matter is you, yes you are a USELESS MEMBER OF SOCIETY

If the Goverment where a bit more selective and a little less humantiarian we would kick idiots and self destructive fokes out the door as soon as we figured out which is which, My view on this is simple,
To be a Smoker you must be
A. Illterate and thus unable to read all the Warnings
B. An Idiot who smokes because its "cool" or does not belive those "science guys"
C. A sick twisted fuck who's slowly killing himself and ENJOYING IT

You seem to fall into C here Raoul Don't take this the wrong way, take it exactly as I say it an mean it but your contriputing to pollution and down the road will be sucking up my Tax dollers in heathcare and benfits and at the moment its not = to the amount of money on Ciggerrets so some of it comes out of my wallet and frankly I'd love to pull the plug but the IRS does not give me benfits of paying my Taxes because its expected

AND your lessning the Heath of everyone around you, I know you can find half a dozen second hand smoke studies that go any which way you want them to depending on your point of view I can find twenty for one and twenty for the other but basic science as these studies often leave out comes down to this

You are exposing ME to poisons, Enough of those will kill me, If you SLOWLY poision me is that any diffrent from you posioning me normaly?

IE a Murder that takes twenty years to commit or a single hour is not the same thing?(Better example you know you have HIV you have unprotected sex that person's blood is now on your hands if they catch it from you)


As I mentioned eariler, My point of view is simple, Raise the taxs on Ciggerrets until say 50,000 Cigs(About what you'll smoke in a few years) is equal to the cost of say, lets be fair one year of Heath Care, Considering how things equal out now-adays that means about a $2.50 Tax on each of those Cigs you'll be smoking, You can kill yourself fine by me but your not killing yourself on my money so to speak

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Actually, Bean, I fall into:

D. People who smoke because people tell them they shouldn't.

And let me fill you in on a couple things here: For one thing, I do pay more for medical coverage. A shitload more. For another thing, (to invoke silly rhetoric, for which you must admit I have a natural flair) there is another compound which, if you breathe it long enough, will inevitably kill you: air.

Now let me make something clear: I will eventually quit; but most emphatically not because of social or political pressure. I will quit when I decide that quitting is what I want to do. I will do it for my children. I will do it for myself. I will not do it for the whining brat in the Greenpeace shirt, for the whining brat in the Arizona legislature who had a bad experience with a greaser back in the '50s and wants to get revenge by annihilating the greaser image.

One last thing: my bitch here is not about people trying to take away my vice because they know better than I do what is good for me. My bitch is about the way they're doing it -- by end-running the system to take a product off the market without letting consumers have a say in it.

[Mr Bean]

E. People who smoke because people tell them they shouldn't.

Nooo that would be B, Idiots I'll modfy it to "People who Rebel Aginst Authority Idiots"

And let me fill you in on a couple things here: For one thing, I do pay more for medical coverage. A shitload more.

Thats Insurance, No one Forces you to Buy any Insurance(Except Car) because Insurance is Useless 99% of the time, and furthermore I'm talking about one year of MEDICAL CARE that should be recoped through those 50k Cigs

For another thing, (to invoke silly rhetoric, for which you must admit I have a natural flair) there is another compound which, if you breathe it long enough, will inevitably kill you: air.

Enough of ANYTHING will Kill you, However if you toss me in a Smoke Filled Room I'll die in a few mintues, however if you toss me in a Air filled room I'll die in a few days from Dehydration not from chocking to death

Now let me make something clear: I will eventually quit;

To Late, Short of Lung and Throat Transplants or Cloning new tissues the damage you have is permante

I will eventually quit; but most emphatically not because of social or political pressure. I will quit when I decide that quitting is what I want to do. I will do it for my children. I will do it for myself. I will not do it for the whining brat in the Greenpeace shirt, for the whining brat in the Arizona legislature who had a bad experience with a greaser back in the '50s and wants to get revenge by annihilating the greaser image.

Well guess what, People arn't trying to get you to quite because of some shit in the 50s or because they are Greenpeace, its because your killing yourself You dumb fuck! and your hurting those around you as well, The Damage is PERMANTE

Let me approache this another way, Raoul can you offer a SINGLE Justfication for Smoking?
Can you?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

No, Bean, I can't -- except this one, and I'll admit it's weak: I want to make my own decision. Now that's just the rebel in me, but it's my choice, not yours, not the government's, not God's. My choice.

Now back to the meat of the matter, which I've already mentioned: is it right to tax a product off the market in order to get around having to give consumers a choice? Am I the only one who thinks that practice interferes unreasonably with a free market?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

So? They banned lawn darts outright.

[Mr Bean]

No, Bean, I can't -- except this one, and I'll admit it's weak: I want to make my own decision. Now that's just the rebel in me, but it's my choice, not yours, not the government's, not God's. My choice.

Fine by me as long as I get to spray you with Peppery Spray every time I see you

But you have to admit, Choice or not, It IS idiotic

[Darth Wong]

No, Bean, I can't -- except this one, and I'll admit it's weak: I want to make my own decision. Now that's just the rebel in me, but it's my choice, not yours, not the government's, not God's. My choice.

Now back to the meat of the matter, which I've already mentioned: is it right to tax a product off the market in order to get around having to give consumers a choice? Am I the only one who thinks that practice interferes unreasonably with a free market?

They do much more with most narcotics. Tobacco is given a relatively free ride only because of the grandfather clause.

[Mr Bean]

They banned lawn darts outright.

I have two Sets in my Basement

Who in Wong's name though up of the idea whereby one would throw Pointed Metal Objects Between 5 to 10 Pounds Made of Soild Metal with Fins attacks for Stablity at tiny Targets you place at your feet and threw at the other persons across your yard?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

No, Bean, I can't -- except this one, and I'll admit it's weak: I want to make my own decision. Now that's just the rebel in me, but it's my choice, not yours, not the government's, not God's. My choice.

Fine by me as long as I get to spray you with Peppery Spray every time I see you

But you have to admit, Choice or not, It IS idiotic

Yes, it is stupid, I'll concede that. And you have the right to endanger your own life, of course, by spraying me with pepper spray. Beware the lemon meringue pie...