Zero is Not a Number!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-13 11:14pm

I heard this one today and though it best to bring it up here

Is Zero a Number?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-11-13 11:20pm

Who the fuck voted NO??!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-11-13 11:21pm

Zero is a number, it represents the concept of nothing. I thought I read somewhere that only the Arabs and the Aztecs/Incas used the number 0, the Romans, Greeks, egyptians, etc could never even concieve of what zero represented.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-13 11:21pm

0 is an integer, and 0 is a whole number. Going by mathematical definition, it IS a number.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-11-13 11:22pm

Zero is not a number. A number is defined as something that can be counted. Zero means there is nothing, and you can't really count something that isn't there. Ergo, zero is not a number.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-13 11:26pm

Zero needs to be a number. It is necessary for numbers like 10, 20, and 100. It is necessary because of our base 10 system (or, for that matter, for any number system involving a base number).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-13 11:27pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Zero is not a number. A number is defined as something that can be counted. Zero means there is nothing, and you can't really count something that isn't there. Ergo, zero is not a number.

What the fuck are you talking about? You can't "count" a negative number either, and it's a number. You certainly can't count complex numbers, and they're numbers.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2002-11-14 12:23am

I'm aware of a lot more uniformed non-Americans than Americans.
Now if you want to talk about uninformed...

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-11-14 12:30am

Yoshi,

The very idea of "Nothingness" being represented by a number is what terrified people during the Dark Ages and held back the development of mathematics in Europe. I may be out on exactly when this happened during European history, but I seem to recall that it did happen.

XPViking

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-11-14 12:34am

XPViking wrote:Yoshi,

The very idea of "Nothingness" being represented by a number is what terrified people during the Dark Ages and held back the development of mathematics in Europe. I may be out on exactly when this happened during European history, but I seem to recall that it did happen.

XPViking

0

*watches the Dark Ages idiots flee in abject terror*
DAMN I love doing that!

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2002-11-14 12:42am

Stravo wrote:Zero is a number, it represents the concept of nothing. I thought I read somewhere that only the Arabs and the Aztecs/Incas used the number 0, the Romans, Greeks, egyptians, etc could never even concieve of what zero represented.

It was the Maya, actually.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-14 12:45am

Frank Hipper wrote:
Stravo wrote:Zero is a number, it represents the concept of nothing. I thought I read somewhere that only the Arabs and the Aztecs/Incas used the number 0, the Romans, Greeks, egyptians, etc could never even concieve of what zero represented.
It was the Maya, actually.

I thought so....I just couldn't say for sure.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-14 12:50am

verilon wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:
Stravo wrote:Zero is a number, it represents the concept of nothing. I thought I read somewhere that only the Arabs and the Aztecs/Incas used the number 0, the Romans, Greeks, egyptians, etc could never even concieve of what zero represented.
It was the Maya, actually.
I thought so....I just couldn't say for sure.

Yes, the Maya and Arabs both developed the number 0 independently. The Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians had to make due with systems without base numbers (Roman numerals).

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-11-14 01:05am

Darth Yoshi wrote:Zero is not a number. A number is defined as something that can be counted. Zero means there is nothing, and you can't really count something that isn't there. Ergo, zero is not a number.

The square root of twenty three plus the five thirds times the square root of negative one is a number, and it can't be counted either!

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-14 01:11am

Yoshi: zero can be counted. Your computer always starts counting at zero. Ergo, zero is a number.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-14 01:19am

data_link wrote:Yoshi: zero can be counted. Your computer always starts counting at zero. Ergo, zero is a number.

*points at my orginal explanation of zero, ie, the simple one.*

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-14 01:29am

Zero is a number.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2002-11-14 02:23am

Both

The concept of Zero is a number, like any number it refers to a specific quantity, in this cause none. Therefore the concept of zero is a number. The symbol for zero, 0, however is a symbol to represent the concept and it is not in and of itself a number. An example of this would be that a physical dog is indeed a dog, while the word dog is not a physical dog.

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2002-11-18 01:23pm

As far as I recall a guy from india called "Bhramagubta" or some such (can't even guess at the first name) in the 4th century BC (I think, shooting from the hip in the time), to handle some problems with the system of indian (now known as the arab) numbers. The math scolars of the following centuries already had this discussion, and closed down the "thread" way over a millenium ago after concluding that it had to be a number.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-11-18 04:57pm

It can be counted, so it is a number, but it represents nothing, and nothing isn't something, so in that case, it's not a number. Still, I'd say it's a number.

It's like the same argument over whether black and white are colors.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-18 04:58pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:It can be counted, so it is a number, but it represents nothing, and nothing isn't something, so in that case, it's not a number. Still, I'd say it's a number.

It's like the same argument over whether black and white are colors.

It represents nothing. But it is not nothing. THerefore it is not not a number.

Dralan · Post by **Dralan** » 2002-11-18 07:26pm

To get to the number known as 2 we have to go from 0 adding 1 two times or 2 one time. If we have the number 1 and subtract 1 we get the number 0. Although 0 stands for no content it IS still a number. Withouth the number 0 science would have alot of problems. 0 is the basis that all things stem from.

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2002-11-18 07:31pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Yes, the Maya and Arabs both developed the number 0 independently. The Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians had to make due with systems without base numbers (Roman numerals).

The Arabs actually got it from India, who also passed it along to the Chinese.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2002-11-19 02:54am

I say check out a nice abstract algebra book. Any one will do.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-11-19 07:51am

Malecoda wrote:I say check out a nice abstract algebra book. Any one will do.

***POKE!***

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Zero is Not a Number!

Zero Yes? Zero No? Zero Zero?

Zero is Not a Number!