lessons in justice from that ten commandments website ...

[Vympel]

CASE: A son or daughter either curses or strikes his father or his mother.

VERDICT: The son or daughter should be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9).


You gotta admit they're consistent ....

http://www.tencommandments.org/heathens.shtml

Mindless fundie ranting about atheists ... apparently we're possessed by DEMONS.

[Ghost Rider]

We aren't ?

[data_link]

We aren't ?

No, we're posessed by angels. The fact that they happen to be Satan's angels is irrelevant.

[Ghost Rider]

Angels...demons...do we get some fire from above to smite our foes...I want fire from above!!!

Oh wait...do we get portable nukes ?

[data_link]

Nope, even better.

PORTABLE GRIDFIRE CANNON!

[Vympel]

Satan has angels? Cool.

I thought he was an angel?

[neoolong]

"atheism is properly defined as a denial of the existence of God in the midst of full knowledge that the true God does indeed exist. Atheism knows God exists; it is quite familiar with that fact, but it says "under no circumstance or situation will I admit to God's existence."

Stupid git. Dumbass can't even use a fucking dictionary to look up the word atheism. Or maybe Satan is the author of the dictionary also.

[Sea Skimmer]

No good shall come from this demon spawned hell spout of a web site.

[Frank Hipper]

I sent him an e-mail......

Thank you for your rather silly and childish interpretation of christian dogma. I can imagine no better argument for atheism than these sensless rantings you present on your website. You truly are a relic from another time. You completely miss the true wisdom found in the ten commandments and seem proud of the fact.
Frank Hipper
I could have done better, but considering that he'll get to "silly and childish" and then delete, why bother.

[NecronLord]

Satan has angels? Cool.

I thought he was an angel?

Should you care to kow, he is an Archangel, he has lesser angels who joined his revolt against the evil one and were banished.

[Vympel]

I would love to know what evil things Satan has done actually ... it's all a smear campaign

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

They forget that there was a time where the Bible was the ultimate law and anyone who defied it was punished. I think it was called the Dark Ages.

[Frank Hipper]

I sent him an e-mail......

Thank you for your rather silly and childish interpretation of christian dogma. I can imagine no better argument for atheism than these sensless rantings you present on your website. You truly are a relic from another time. You completely miss the true wisdom found in the ten commandments and seem proud of the fact.
Frank Hipper
I could have done better, but considering that he'll get to "silly and childish" and then delete, why bother.

He sent me a reply!

"I can't help it that you are a moral criminal on your way to hell. Its silly to be a moral criminal." [quote from R. T. Lee, ten commandments asshole]

YAY!! I'm goin' to hell!

[Durandal]

What "true wisdom" is contained in the ten commandments, exactly? Bow down, worship and obey an unrepentent mass murderer above all else, even at the expense of your fellow man's well-being?

[Frank Hipper]

" True Wisdom" was a verbal barb for his benefit. When you extract the no other god kinda bullshit and just stick to the secular stuff, they aren't so bad, really.

[Durandal]

Except that they outlaw freedom of thought, and honoring your parents is more important than not killing people.

[data_link]

NTM that if you removed the "honoring God" part from the bible, you'd have nothing left.

[Frank Hipper]

Except that they outlaw freedom of thought, and honoring your parents is more important than not killing people.

Believe me, any defense of the bible coming from me will be half-assed, at best. I've known more than a few parents that deserve a whole fuck of a lot more than dishonor.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I have never seen anyone more stupid. I think I am going to vomit*hurl*

[Wicked Pilot]

Someone should point out to him that there are in fact two different sets of ten commandments.

[PeZook]

Well, I had nothing else to do, so I decided to try my own in tearing Mr. Lee's Atheism argument to shreds. Before I send it, I would like the opinion of some more exprienced Flame Warriors.

Here it goes(take note, I am still thinking about a witty ending):

Dear sir.

I have read your article on Ateism and the supposed "dangers" it draws along. Unfortunately, I was totally unable to find any form of backing up your claims, other than erroneous logic, hasty generalizations and other minor fallacies. While I certainly respect other beliefs and religions, such as Christianity, I find it appalling that some fundamentalist representatives of such religions consider themselves to be perfectly qualified to speak on a topic they clearly don't know antyhing about.

In order to not let this e-mail turn into one long rant, I shall now present several errors in your article:

Taken from the first paragraph:

"The best way to understand the nature of atheism is to understand its author. satan is its author.

It's important to remain conscious of the fact that satan had his origin in heaven, and is thoroughly familiar with the fact of the existence of God, heaven, the angels, hell and etc. Thus despite what you have been previously deceptively taught and despite the deceptive dictionary's meaning of atheism, atheism is properly defined as a denial of the existence of God in the midst of full knowledge that the true God does indeed exist. Atheism knows God exists; it is quite familiar with that fact, but it says "under no circumstance or situation will I admit to God's existence." "

This passage is incorrect. First, you assume that the dictionary definition of atheism is wrong. Why? You falsely assume that we (eg. Atheists) acknowledge the existence of God. We don't, which is the very nature of Atheism, while, as a matter of fact, we DON'T. Atheism means a lack of belief in any superior being.

Then, you proceed to say that under no circumstances an Atheist will accept the existence of God. Again, you are incorrect. Most atheists chose to abandon the belief in god because his presence cannot be verified in any way. If this superior being would show himself and give proof of his omnipotence, I would believe in it.

"Atheism clearly perceives the fingerprints of God on all of creation, but refuses to admit He is the Creator. Atheism perceives the divine authorship of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, but refuses to admit that God is their Author. Atheism perceives the decorousness and perfection of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, but refuses to admit they are superior to all other laws. Atheism clearly perceives the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ, but refuses to admit His divinity. If an atheist could see the wounds in the body of Christ and actually feel them with his hands, he would deny that the wounds are there. Atheism is deliberate effort to never admit the existence of God. "

Bunch of outright lies. Show me some conclusive, verifiable evidence of those "fingerprints" on all of "creation". Show me evidence that the Ten Commandmends were indeed written by some sort of a superior being instead of a human prophet. Show me evidence of Jesus Christ's divinity.
Surprised that I demand evidence? Guess I'm not acnowledging all that things that I was supposed to, huh?

The last sentence is pure, excuse the obscenity, bullshit. Again, you present your grossly distorted version of atheism and try to disprove it. You it's a logical fallacy, right?

And why the hell are the Ten Commandments better than all other laws? Because of the three that prohibit murder, theft and adultery?
If the TC are so perfect, then why the hell the first three deal with the worshipping of God instead of more important things like murder? Why is murder on the 7th place in the list?

"Atheism is the ultimate of satanism."

It's not. An atheist doesn't believe in satan NOR god.

"Atheism holds the Bible in one hand, but deny its existence by denying its truth with the other. "

It's thruth. Uh-huh. Right. I guess that snow and hail is held in storehouses then? (Job 38:22-23)
A hint here: it's not. Science explained how snow is formed long ago. Too bad the bible's authors were simple savages who had to invent a man in the sky to explain such things as snow and rain.

"It is this antithetical principle, called "the law of sin" which is at work in the hearts of atheists causing them to reject God."

Righteousness and sin are biblical terms. I follow a humanist moral code that has nothing to do with biblical sins.

"Below are articles I've presented in effort to expose the true satanic nature of atheism, the great harm it is doing to the american society and the world community and to prove and demonstrate that atheists and all other nonbelievers in the true God are the actual criminals of the world community."

You are aware how many wars were started by religious fanatics, right? And you do know what america's Founding Fathers believed in?
And guess how many people atheists killed in the name of promoting their ideoligy.

"Below are articles I've presented in effort to expose the true satanic nature of atheism, the great harm it is doing to the american society and the world community and to prove and demonstrate that atheists and all other nonbelievers in the true God are the actual criminals of the world community."

No, laws should be made against people like YOU who spread hate rhetoric against a completely harmless social group like atheists.
Fortunately, a seven year old child could see through your flawed arguments.


Now, to the meat of the article (ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICS AND NON BELIEVERS ARE THE TRUE CRIMINALS OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY):

"God commands all mankind in the TEN COMMANDMENTS to: "Honor your father and your mother," "You shall not murder," "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor," and etc, (Exodus 20:1-17). Is any atheist, agnostic or unbeliever foolish enough to publicly deny the decorousness of those laws?

OK, there?s no disagreement with the fact that those Laws are righteous and honorable. "

They are, but you falsely assume in the next paragraph that without the Ten Commandments, people would have no moral code. Why the American Indians considered murder, theft, adultery and disrespect for their parents as wrong, too? They didn't have the Ten Commandments (until the righteous christians showed up, of course, and started slaughtering the Indians in the name of God)

"But since atheists deny God's existence, they don?t have the ability to realize that God is the Author of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. This forces them to attribute their authorship to a human. But since atheism is opposed to the decorous TEN COMMANDMENTS, even while being force to deceptively think they were authored by a human, this clearly shows evidence that atheism was and is incapable of authoring, realizing and honoring such decorous and noble laws. If in the view of the atheist the TEN COMMANDMENTS were authored by a human, and since it is rightly established that those laws are decorous and honorable, but are hated by atheists, and atheists are said to comprise the most "educated" segment of the human race, then it would have taken a more decorous and honorable human to author them than even the most highly educated atheist. "

Sorry, dude, no deal. There are other moral examples to follow despite the Ten Commandments, even if this escapes your pitifully small perception. An author of the TCs doesn't need to be a genius, since nearly every ancient civilization that didn't give a fuck about Christianity had very similar moral codes. It's just a coincidence that European culture was dominated by the Catholic church.

"Atheism, by means of its opposition to the decorous TEN COMMANDMENTS is none other than an antithetical principle to God and His Holy Law. This antithesis is the actual principle at the heart of atheism?s inability to love such decorous laws as : "honor your father and your mother," "You shall not kill," and etc. Therefore, it is right to conclude that atheism is none other than raw depravity - the diabolical principle at work in people who dishonor their parents, murder, lie and commit every other moral crime. "

Ah, so I'm a homicidal maniac now, just by the virtue of being Atheist? And you would like the government to sentence me on that basis? How is that different from racial separation from the 50s and 60s?
Well, sorry to blast your rosy little world into oblivion, but I have never murdered anyone, nor do I consider it right to commit murder, lie, steal, rape women and curse my parents (although I DO consider it right to curse parents who don't give a damn about their kids, drink or do drugs)
I am not a racist, a hatemonger, or a bigot, unlike some others i could name (yes, you have a nice place amongst them, Mr. Lee)

"So now you realize that it is atheists (and other nonbelievers) who are in favor of putting their "terminally ill" parents to death; who are in favor of murdering innocent human embryos and fetuses; who are perpetuating homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality, pornography, pedophilia and etc; who are responsible for all the violence in the movie industry; who are responsible for all the smut on the web..."

More outright lies...and what the hell is wrong with pornography and homosexualism? Is homosexualism hurting anyone? Maybe your feelings, but that's not a crime.
Just don't try to tell me I advocate child pornography ; I don't.

"who bear false witness against the existence of God"

It's not false, it's simply a logical conclusion given the lack of evidence for the existence of an imaginary man in the sky

"who bear the false testimony that the earth came into being by a cataclysmic explosion"

Read up on some astronomy first. Earth wasn't formed during the Big Bang, the planets started forming later on, from debris pulled together by gravity (a simplistic explanation, but it's taght at a high school science class ; guess high school science classes are a work od Satan, too)

"who bear the false testimony of evolution; who bear the false testimony that man descended from the ape; who worship the creature rather than the Creator"

1&2)Again, it's simply a logical conclusion ; 3) Atheists don't "worship" anything, you goddamned dumbass! Read up on the word "atheism" and you will see it means an absence of ANY god.

"who are responsible for all the moral decline in America and the world community"

Gee, so the massacres of the Crusades and strangling of science that the Church did in the Middle Ages was perfectly moral, and only now the world declined because of some vast conspiracy of Atheists.
Are you Jack Chick's relative or something?

"Atheists and all other nonbelievers in the true God - regardless of their level of "education" and position in society - are therefore the true criminals of the world community and if there is a sane government, it should treat them accordingly. "

It's a good thing that the US government stayed sane and DIDN'T introduce such hate-inducing laws.
Again, you would arrest ME, even though I never commited any crime?

"ATHEISTS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUTH CRIME"
[snip some sad but unrelated articles]
And how do these shootings and murders relate to Atheism?
Here in Poland we are also witnessing an explosion of youth crime, and Poland is 99% Catholic.
Have you EVER considered that there may be other causes for it, instead of Atheism?

"Some of the many ways atheists are doing this are through anti-God and anti-moral parental attitude, violence in the movie and music industries, anti-moral attitude on the web and etc. All the anti-God and anti-moral attitudes found in these fields come from atheists and other non believers. "

Oh. So calling for hate and arrests on basis of religious believes is okay?
I saw a lot of violence on TV, and it didn't turn me into a murdering monster. If parent's don't care about their children, it's not some atheist conspiracy, it's their damned fault!
Society should be concentrating more on it's own faults, instead of blaming everything they don't like on an arbitrary cause, like atheism.

Next chapter(ATHEISM - A DOCTRINE OF DEMONS):

"Imagine that you could listen to or talk face-to-face with satan about any subject that has to do with God. "

Ok

"Then bring to remembrance anything you've heard atheists say against God. (Or if you are an atheist, you know your own sentiments and thoughts). "

Uh-huh...

"Now, if you try, you will find that it is impossible to imagine satan expressing sentiments about God different than what atheists express. Satan certainly is not going to speak positively about God, and neither are atheists. So, what both think and verbalize is in complete harmony with one another. "

Satan: God is not all he is cracked up to be! Join me!

Atheist (me): Not Satan nor God exist.

Sounds REALLY similar to each other. Yeah, right.

"Atheism is therefore a doctrine of demons, and in many, if not all cases, atheists are demon-possessed. "

Strawman argument. You are constantly trying to beat down your OWN definition of atheism.

"So it is quite possible that when you read the writings of atheists, or heard them speaking, all you heard was demons ranting against God. "

You believe that everyone who doesn't believe in God is demon posessed? Why don't demons posess more prominent figures, instead of university students like me?

"So, lets assume (in order to prove a point here) that atheists are right. If a human author them (and I speak as if insane), then we know for sure that no atheist, agnostic nor any other unbeliever had sense enough to author them.

Why is that so? Because atheists are OPPOSED to GOD and His Holy COMMANDMENTS. And again, some even say the TEN COMMANDMENTS don't exist. So if a human authored them, it was a person who had far more intelligence than any atheist, agnostic or unbeliever. "

Circular logic. You say that no atheist could author the ten commandments, and then use your very own premise as "proof"
Nice try, no deal.

"However, the deep wisdom contained in the TEN COMMANDMENTS is far beyond human capabilities. The deep wisdom and righteousness contained in them proves their Divine authorship. "

So I guess the American Indians woulnd't understand such concepts as the evil of murder...oh, wait, they DID understand it.

Next chapter(THE BIGGEST FOOLS ON EARTH) is simply a repeat of what you said sooner, again with no evidence to back it up, so I will skip it for the sake of brevity.


NO PROOF BEYOND THE EVIDENCE:

"There?s no greater argument for the existence of God than the truth of His existence. Atheists completely discount this truth, while challenging every true Christian to present proof. "

Now here is a textbook example of circular logic. Go look it up.

"Since it is impossible to prove the existence of God beyond the fact itself and beyond the overwhelming evidence in all of God?s creation, the type challenge atheists make to Christians is both a foolish challenge and an impossible task for the Christian. "

Demanding evidence to back up a claim is a normal and sound principle of the scientific method.

"Since atheists recognize that it is impossible to prove the existence of God beyond the truth itself and beyond the overwhelming evidence that they deliberately discount, they blindly and deceptively regard such impossibility as real proof that God doe not exist. "

There is no evidence for the existence of god. That is the whole goddamned reason for Atheism! (not your distorted version of atheism ; the real one)

"This deceptive principle has been exemplified time-after-time in courts of law. For example: A person commits a very heinous crime. All the evidence that prove the person?s guilt is presented in court by the prosecutor. The evidence overwhelmingly prove the person?s guilt.

However, the criminal denies he committed the crime, and his lawyers, while seeking to deceptively prove his innocence, do all they can to discount the evidence presented by the prosecutor. And while discounting the evidence, the defense attorneys constantly challenges the prosecutor to prove their client is guilty. "

Too bad there is no evidence, buddy.

""The fingerprints of God are clearly seen in many ways: One is the fact that no creature has the ability to CREATE. Man can take what has already been created and change it or make a mixture of something with what has already been created; but man as well as every other creature and thing is totally void of the ability to actually BRING INTO BEING SOMETHING FROM NOTHING."

I challenge any atheist, agnostic, freethinker or unbeliever to show a single simple example of anything any man, creature or thing has brought into existence from nothing. "

False dillema. The fact that we can't create something from nothing does not imply the existence of God, and therefore is completely unrelated to the argument.

"The only One who has and who can do that is the ALMIGHTY GOD. Behold the beautiful fingerprints of God! "

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the part where you show those fingerprints to the reader. Oh, wait. There was no such part...

It's almost over: GOD'S WRATH ABIDES AGAINST ATHEISTS

Oh, sorry, I thought there will be more there than proselytizing about how EVIL atheists are and how your distorted view of atheism is bad.
There's nothing of value in this part of the article, so I will simply skip it

How is it? Any comments, things that I should add?

[LordShaithis]

Pearls before swine, talking to the wall, and so on. Where the hell is that Fundie-Kill virus???

[Coyote]

Well, I had nothing else to do, so I decided to try my own in tearing Mr. Lee's Atheism argument to shreds....

He'll get maybe the first 25% of the reading done then either delete it or send back a rant of his own, or even more irritating, an "I'll pray for you" bumper sticker.

First rule: keep your initial post SHORT and to the POINT. Get him hooked on something that is sure to challenge him without making him angry. If he's angry he'll just dismiss it. Present a couple of simple, logical counters to his garbage then see if he bites. If he does, reel him in with more logic.

Never blow off your whole belt of ammo at once. Save some for an extended battle and a couple spectacular bits for a good coup d'grace at the end. But the hardest part is the approach, make sure you hook him good before you get to the more advanced phase...

God luck.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I do believe it is too long. Split your next messages up into smaller messages, and drag out the process. If he tells you you're going to hell, say that he's being a coward, and he made no point. You refuted all his arguments, and he's probably going to realize that. You can expect this in his reply, assuming it's not bigoted nonsense:

Strawmen: He'll take your points and distort them.
A wall of ignorance: Will ignore some of your points and repeat the argument.
Ad hominems: He'll call you "evil".
Style over substance: He'll bring up instances of a bad attitude in the post, and say because of them, he has "moral high ground".
Also expect bizarre leaps in logic and false cause all around.

[Rathark]

Satan has angels? Cool.

I thought he was an angel?

Should you care to kow, he is an Archangel, he has lesser angels who joined his revolt against the evil one and were banished.

Wasn't he a seraph? Seraphs are the highest of the nine angelic orders. "Archangels" are merely the second lowest, a level above angels.