The LAW strikes back against Fundie Judge
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
The LAW strikes back against Fundie Judge
Let's hear it for good ol' Judge Thompson!!!!
By BOB JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - A Ten Commandments monument
in the rotunda of Alabama's judicial building violates the
constitution's ban on government promotion of religion,
a federal judge ruled Monday.
U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson gave Alabama Chief
Justice Roy Moore, who had the 5,300-pound granite
monument installed in the state building, 30 days to remove it.
Thompson said that previous court rulings have allowed
displays on government property if they have a secular
purpose and do not foster "excessive government
entanglement with religion." He said the Ten Commandments
monument fails this test.
"His fundamental, if not sole, purpose in displaying the
monument was non-secular; and the monument's primary
effect advances religion," Thompson said.
Moore testified during the trial that the commandments
are the moral foundation of American law. He said the
monument acknowledges God, but does not force anyone to
follow his conservative Christian religious beliefs.
A lawsuit seeking removal of the monument argued that
it promoted the judge's faith in violation of the constitution's
ban on government establishment of religion.
Moore installed the monument after the building closed
on the night of July 31, 2001, without telling any other justices.
"This monument was snuck in during the middle of the night a
nd they can sneak it out just as easily. It's a gross violation
of the rights of the citizens of Alabama," said Morris Dees,
lead counsel and co-founder of the Southern Poverty Law
Center, who urged Moore to remove the monument
immediately.
The monument, which features the King James Bible
version of the Ten Commandments sitting on top of a
granite block, is one of the first things visitors see upon
entering the building.
In his ruling, Thompson said he found the monument to
be more than just a display of the Ten Commandments
and other historical quotations.
"The court is impressed that the monument and its
immediate surroundings are, in essence, a consecrated
place, a religious sanctuary, within the walls of the
courthouse," Thompson wrote.
An appeal was expected. Neither Moore nor his lead
attorney, Stephen Melchior, had any immediate comment
on the ruling. An assistant to Melchior said they were
reserving comment until they had read the opinion.
Moore fought to display a wooden plaque of the
commandments on his courtroom wall in Etowah
County, before he won election as chief justice in
November 2000.
"The basic issue is whether we will still be able to
acknowledge God under the First Amendment, or
whether we will not be able to acknowledge God,"
Moore testified.
Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans
United for Separation of Church and State, called the
ruling a setback for "Moore's religious crusade."
"It's high time Moore learned that the source of U.S. law
is the constitution and not the Bible," Lynn said.
One of Moore's supporters, Alabama Christian Coalition
President John Giles, said he believes there may be a
backlash against the ruling in Alabama, a Bible Belt state
in which Moore won easily two years ago.
"I am afraid the judge's order putting a 30-day limit on
removal of the monument will lead to an uprising of
citizens protesting removal of that monument," Giles said.
-----------------------END STORY-----------------------------------------------
WoooHooo.... Perhaps there is a chance for America after all. But those last two paragraphs have me a bit worried. I just hope the Federal Law System doesn't bend to the Fundie's will.
By BOB JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - A Ten Commandments monument
in the rotunda of Alabama's judicial building violates the
constitution's ban on government promotion of religion,
a federal judge ruled Monday.
U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson gave Alabama Chief
Justice Roy Moore, who had the 5,300-pound granite
monument installed in the state building, 30 days to remove it.
Thompson said that previous court rulings have allowed
displays on government property if they have a secular
purpose and do not foster "excessive government
entanglement with religion." He said the Ten Commandments
monument fails this test.
"His fundamental, if not sole, purpose in displaying the
monument was non-secular; and the monument's primary
effect advances religion," Thompson said.
Moore testified during the trial that the commandments
are the moral foundation of American law. He said the
monument acknowledges God, but does not force anyone to
follow his conservative Christian religious beliefs.
A lawsuit seeking removal of the monument argued that
it promoted the judge's faith in violation of the constitution's
ban on government establishment of religion.
Moore installed the monument after the building closed
on the night of July 31, 2001, without telling any other justices.
"This monument was snuck in during the middle of the night a
nd they can sneak it out just as easily. It's a gross violation
of the rights of the citizens of Alabama," said Morris Dees,
lead counsel and co-founder of the Southern Poverty Law
Center, who urged Moore to remove the monument
immediately.
The monument, which features the King James Bible
version of the Ten Commandments sitting on top of a
granite block, is one of the first things visitors see upon
entering the building.
In his ruling, Thompson said he found the monument to
be more than just a display of the Ten Commandments
and other historical quotations.
"The court is impressed that the monument and its
immediate surroundings are, in essence, a consecrated
place, a religious sanctuary, within the walls of the
courthouse," Thompson wrote.
An appeal was expected. Neither Moore nor his lead
attorney, Stephen Melchior, had any immediate comment
on the ruling. An assistant to Melchior said they were
reserving comment until they had read the opinion.
Moore fought to display a wooden plaque of the
commandments on his courtroom wall in Etowah
County, before he won election as chief justice in
November 2000.
"The basic issue is whether we will still be able to
acknowledge God under the First Amendment, or
whether we will not be able to acknowledge God,"
Moore testified.
Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans
United for Separation of Church and State, called the
ruling a setback for "Moore's religious crusade."
"It's high time Moore learned that the source of U.S. law
is the constitution and not the Bible," Lynn said.
One of Moore's supporters, Alabama Christian Coalition
President John Giles, said he believes there may be a
backlash against the ruling in Alabama, a Bible Belt state
in which Moore won easily two years ago.
"I am afraid the judge's order putting a 30-day limit on
removal of the monument will lead to an uprising of
citizens protesting removal of that monument," Giles said.
-----------------------END STORY-----------------------------------------------
WoooHooo.... Perhaps there is a chance for America after all. But those last two paragraphs have me a bit worried. I just hope the Federal Law System doesn't bend to the Fundie's will.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
- Alyrium Denryle
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Gloria Victoria!
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"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
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Factio republicanum delenda est
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There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Factio republicanum delenda est
- Skorpion Stryke
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N00B located. Commencing poking operations:
POKE
POKE
data_link has resigned from the board after proving himself to be a relentless strawman-using asshole in this thread and being too much of a pussy to deal with the inevitable flames. Buh-bye.
- Stuart Mackey
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You elect your judges?? how do you maintain impartiality?
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
- Darth Wong
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They don't. Judges tend to have partisan affiliations, and the higher up you go, the worse it is.Stuart Mackey wrote:You elect your judges?? how do you maintain impartiality?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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The only hope is to elect enough from both sides that their partisan biases cancel each other out. Unfortunately, it tends not to work too well.Darth Wong wrote:They don't. Judges tend to have partisan affiliations, and the higher up you go, the worse it is.Stuart Mackey wrote:You elect your judges?? how do you maintain impartiality?
BattleTech for SilCoreStanley Hauerwas wrote:[W]hy is it that no one is angry at the inequality of income in this country? I mean, the inequality of income is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Why isn’t that ever an issue of politics? Because you don’t live in a democracy. You live in a plutocracy. Money rules.
- Stuart Mackey
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Staggers the mind, that does.Darth Wong wrote:They don't. Judges tend to have partisan affiliations, and the higher up you go, the worse it is.Stuart Mackey wrote:You elect your judges?? how do you maintain impartiality?
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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- Stuart Mackey
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No offence, but thats crazy. Of course I comme from NZ, we have the British tradition.The Dark wrote:The only hope is to elect enough from both sides that their partisan biases cancel each other out. Unfortunately, it tends not to work too well.Darth Wong wrote:They don't. Judges tend to have partisan affiliations, and the higher up you go, the worse it is.Stuart Mackey wrote:You elect your judges?? how do you maintain impartiality?
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
Yup both Australia and New Zealand (that's Australia's Canada don't you know hehehe) derive from the common law system. Our High Court is not partisan. We actually have a homosexual on our High Court. Kirby.
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- Stuart Mackey
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Vympel wrote:Yup both Australia and New Zealand (that's Australia's Canada don't you know hehehe)
Not after we make you West Iland, part of the greater New Zealand Empire
America also has common law, its just evolved to be what it is now, where Aussie and NZ is still similar to Britian, but that will change as time goes on.Vympel wrote:derive from the common law system. Our High Court is not partisan. We actually have a homosexual on our High Court. Kirby.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
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My friend had a plan to take over the world with New Zealand as a base- his primary weapon- Sheep.
He would just bomb everyone with sheep. How many megatons of energy are released when millions of sheep drop from orbit?
He would just bomb everyone with sheep. How many megatons of energy are released when millions of sheep drop from orbit?
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To get off the NZ/Aussie flame-(conflict other then war )
The impartiality thing is not working, because electing from two sides of an issue only works if.
a) both sides of an issue are equally likely to be elected.
b) there are only those two sides, not several, to the issue.
As Ming wrote on page 1 you have to swear on a bible over there. Clearly an indication of both of these clauses. Why else would you be swearing on book that itself is inadmissable as evidence?
(I mean, the bible it is hearsay at best: the stories where passed down by oral tradition before being put to the paper, has been translated through 2-3 languages with errors & translator bias accumulating in the process, and is internally inconsistent FCOL)
The impartiality thing is not working, because electing from two sides of an issue only works if.
a) both sides of an issue are equally likely to be elected.
b) there are only those two sides, not several, to the issue.
As Ming wrote on page 1 you have to swear on a bible over there. Clearly an indication of both of these clauses. Why else would you be swearing on book that itself is inadmissable as evidence?
(I mean, the bible it is hearsay at best: the stories where passed down by oral tradition before being put to the paper, has been translated through 2-3 languages with errors & translator bias accumulating in the process, and is internally inconsistent FCOL)
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In Australia, there are 10 times as many sheep as people, making for about 230 million sheep. Assuming a 50kg mass for each one, and a 15km/sec impact speed, each sheep should release 5.625 gigajoules of energy. multiply that by 230 million, and you get 1.293e18 joules, or about a quarter of a gigaton. Did I do any math wrong?Vympel wrote:My friend had a plan to take over the world with New Zealand as a base- his primary weapon- Sheep.
He would just bomb everyone with sheep. How many megatons of energy are released when millions of sheep drop from orbit?
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Holy shit!
What happens if the sheepfarmers get some massive conglomerate to support them, and then revolt? They could level Sydney!
What happens if the sheepfarmers get some massive conglomerate to support them, and then revolt? They could level Sydney!
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.