Aliens Federation offers mebership, at a price.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-03-02 02:05am

Two weeks from now, an Alien Starship arives 300,000km from Earth. It lingers there for a few hours ajusting itself into earth orbit and sending a small drone to the other side of the world, and then broadcasts a message to the world. Flooding over many TV Channals in a multitude of Launguages.

They state in the ten most common human languages (Starting in Mandarin and then repeating the message in the next most common language and so on) that they are part of a ecconomic federation of about 25 worlds. They broadcast there history to us, showing that they have faced despotism before and are what they call Democractic Capitalists with some Socialism. They want us to Join, and if we join we get...

FTL Technology
Viable Nuclear Fusion
Nanochip Computers
Holography
Advanced Cybernetics (brain augmentation, Replacable arms)
High tech Robotics
Medical techology Lightyears ahead of what we got now (Cancer Treatments that can destroy it easily, Reconstructional Nanoprobes that double the Human Lifespan and slow down aging)

How ever, for admission into this Federation there are a few condissions, most of them minor, but there is one big one.

That one is strict restrictions on Islam and most of Christianity.

None of the Speices in this alliance ever developed anything like it, They were all Polytheists with Religions that tended to smuge or atheists, but about 200 years ago they did war with a speices with a Religion similer to Christianity. They over-ran several of there worlds, occupied them for decades but they were defeated eventualy. The problem was when they offered aid in reconstructing there nation, there were Jihadists against aid offisials on the Fundie alien's homeworld. They also converted millions on the worlds they conquored, who also caused alot of terrorism against them. Eventuly they desided to ban said Religion, and used Cybernetic Deleation Implants designed to rehabilitate convicts to purge said religion, and they still face a small number of them to this day.

They have studdied human history, and relised that Christianity and sutch have caused similer problems to humans (Crusades, Inquisitions, Jihads and whatnot). They have made some cossetions, the Canadian United Church is allowed to stay predominatly the same, but other Prodestant, Orthodox and Catholic Churches are to be heavily restricted (it will now cost $25 in Tax to go to Church, no new churches may be built (they may be rebuilt if they are destroyed) no more Bingo nights and no more Religious Schools, also say goodby to "In God we Trust") and the Bapthist church (as well as Jehovah's witnesses and other sects like them) is to be outlawed entirely. Islam is also to go under the same resticitons, Mecca is to be turned into a Federation Run Museam and several Sects of Islam will be irradicated as well. They offer us a 20 year period of transition to integrate us into there laws. Then they will begin "Purging", rounding up Jehovas' witnesses and other sects they have banned and Nerve Stapling them, completly Deleating there knowagde of there fromer Religion.

They are somewhat willing to Negotiate, but will not drop the Religion rules by 100% no matter what.

So three Questions
1-What should we do?
2-what will we do?
3-what do you say about it?

Zor

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-03-02 04:25am

1- We should join
2- We wont join since a buttload of people will be annoyed at religion being wiped out. Also i bet quite a few Americans will go "socialism = communism = teh evil!!!11!"
Plus we don't know what the aliens will do if we just say "no thanks". Will they leave us alone to develope at our own pace or will they pre-emptively attack us?
Overall, unless there's some major power changes, we wont join, though i'd like to see what else we might be able to get from them in exchange for getting rid of what the fundies will call "a vital part of what makes us human"

3- My opinion is that we should join and make plans for the population boom that themassively increased medical capabilities will cause.
The only downside i can see is if all this tech is massively expensive and they're not sharing. Plus i'd be a bit suispicious, what do they want in return for all these wonders?

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2005-03-02 04:46am

1. We should join, of course.
2. Civil war and genocide in America (gays, fags, atheists and free-thinkers being on the recieving end). Once dissent is crushed, we try to spread the rampant spread of anti-religious zealots in other nations. At this point the aliens intervene and take the liberty to finish off religion immediately.

My rationale for this is that the military is pre-dominantly religious in some way, and besides, if the President declares that the armed forces are religious, (if contact happens now then Bush is president) well, that's an order and the naysayers can be court martialed, shot etc. The US military now becomes the President's Crusaders. Though, to be honest, I forsee nukes as our primary foreign policy tools. We'll get curbstomped by the aliens and they will now more directly intervene in our issues to wipe out religion as it's for the greater good anyway.

3. I say we join, of course. I wouldn't be suspicious of the alies because I really don't foree them secretly screwing us over in any way. If they wanted to, they could just invade and convert at will but they're giving us a chance, they're reaching out to us. I say give them a chance. Besides, the cynic in me simply lost faith in humanity long ago, not the universe.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-02 06:18am

1-What should we do?

Join.

2-what will we do?

Fundies will claim the aliens are messengers of Satan trying to get us to abandon God, and we fuck up a golden opportunity by trying to negotiate/intimidate around the rule.

3-what do you say about it?

Join, god dammit! Finally getting a new perspective on life and the universe can only be a good thing.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-03-02 11:21am

Not allowing any new churches or mosques is a bit much... most of the other things sound more like they aren't trying to represses religion, just the hateful people who use religion as an excuse.

aten_vs_ra · Post by **aten_vs_ra** » 2005-03-02 11:24am

Join, the free speech problems are minimal as the aliens are not trying to destroy all religion. They are taking moderate faith and forcing it to be an intensely personal thing, away from the public. Its draconian, but for what we get in return it'll be a small sacrifice.

Islam isn't going to take this sitting down, and Fundies in America will go on a rampage and elect their people into every office imaginable. The world goes ape-shit in a matter of months as the fundies attempt to wield power over nations sympathetic to the aliens (which I imagine being mainly European).

The aliens are going to have to do it for us though, religious fundamentalism is to organized. I suppose that the humanists and others supporting the space ship might finally find an issue they all agree on, if they can become fanatics for the spaceship.

Melchior · Post by **Melchior** » 2005-03-02 01:57pm

aten_vs_ra wrote:Join, the free speech problems are minimal as the aliens are not trying to destroy all religion. They are taking moderate faith and forcing it to be an intensely personal thing, away from the public. Its draconian, but for what we get in return it'll be a small sacrifice.

Frankly, I would accept that even without getting anything in return.
It just doesn't seem a bad thing. (I mean, in radical religion there isn't any good, and they are helping us getting rid of it...)

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-03-02 02:03pm

1. We should join

2. Unfortunately, the global war that will break out trying to suppress fundamentalism will render the planet unworthy of membership.

3. Who's speaking for 'us' anyway, when it comes to accepting or rejecting the aliens' deal? I'm perfectly happy to take the deal, build our FTL ships and settle a new planet far, far away from the fundies. They can have Earth and spend the next millenia fighting over the crumbs while we settle the stars.

Dark Sider · Post by **Dark Sider** » 2005-03-02 02:06pm

I would tell them to go away and leave us in peace.

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-03-02 02:13pm

I would say to not join if only for the fact that we value 'freedom of religion' as much as we value a separation of church and state.

That being said, the Aliens would be violating both. If religious convictions give some comfort and they don't bother me with preaching or trying to insert it into my government, I say -- you can have it.

And if the 'state' now says you can no longer worship to me that's as bad as someone trying to insert their religion into the state.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-03-02 02:18pm

The human response to this will be a big FUCK YOU

Persecution will only make more martyrs.

Dark Sider · Post by **Dark Sider** » 2005-03-02 02:27pm

Tommy J wrote:I would say to not join if only for the fact that we value 'freedom of religion' as much as we value a separation of church and state.

That being said, the Aliens would be violating both. If religious convictions give some comfort and they don't bother me with preaching or trying to insert it into my government, I say -- you can have it.

And if the 'state' now says you can no longer worship to me that's as bad as someone trying to insert their religion into the state.

Here here! I agree. I was having trouble trying to articulate it correctly.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-03-02 02:41pm

Strike a deal to resettle the non-fundies off-world on a planet that will join their club, and leave the shitheads with their shithole planet. Least bloody solution I can think of that doesn't involve /not/ joining, which isn't an option in my book.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-03-02 02:45pm

The fundies don't want the life-extending medtech anyway, it's just delaying their meeting with Jesus/Mohammad/Mithras/whatever.

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-03-02 03:07pm

White Haven wrote:Strike a deal to resettle the non-fundies off-world on a planet that will join their club, and leave the shitheads with their shithole planet. Least bloody solution I can think of that doesn't involve /not/ joining, which isn't an option in my book.

Personally I don't have any problems with the religious so long as they don't push their beliefs onto me. Furthermore, I'd be concerned with an alien species that demanded such a radical transformation of our society, considering that 95% of the planet is religious in one form or another.

I'd be concerned about their next demand which I might not find as palatable. Ever see the Twilight Episode "To Serve Man". If you haven't essentially aliens arrive with the cures to many diseases, new power technologies, ending all wars etc. A book is presented to the UN in the Episode by the Aliens called To Serve Man. It's interpreted (because they cannot read the aliens writing) based on the aliens generosity to mean they're benevolent. At the end of the episode, one of the scientists who's been concerned all along about their motives boards a ship to come to find out that the book:

To Serve Man

WAS A COOKBOOK

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-03-02 03:08pm

My answer would be "Where were you arseholes when the loonies were on the rise on this planet?"

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-03-02 03:14pm

Tommy J wrote:
White Haven wrote:Strike a deal to resettle the non-fundies off-world on a planet that will join their club, and leave the shitheads with their shithole planet. Least bloody solution I can think of that doesn't involve /not/ joining, which isn't an option in my book.
Personally I don't have any problems with the religious so long as they don't push their beliefs onto me. Furthermore, I'd be concerned with an alien species that demanded such a radical transformation of our society, considering that 95% of the planet is religious in one form or another.

Actually, the 95% statistic I hear getting thrown about is apparently only for the US of A...the world is more ~75%.

I'd be concerned about their next demand which I might not find as palatable. Ever see the Twilight Episode "To Serve Man". If you haven't essentially aliens arrive with the cures to many diseases, new power technologies, ending all wars etc. A book is presented to the UN in the Episode by the Aliens called To Serve Man. It's interpreted (because they cannot read the aliens writing) based on the aliens generosity to mean they're benevolent. At the end of the episode, one of the scientists who's been concerned all along about their motives boards a ship to come to find out that the book:

To Serve Man

WAS A COOKBOOK

I think you'll find the simpsons halloween episode is far superior. With a virtual paradise on offer, and 20 years to make the shift, it's not that major a thing.

They are offering us the galaxy, the only stipulation is that we tidy up our play things and act like an intelligent, mature species.

The ban isnt even total, it's just on extreme religious organisations, again, people are free to be as dumb as they like in their beliefs, just not start clubs venerating it.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-03-02 04:28pm

I'd really, really like to believe we'd say yes. The truth is I'm not sure.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-03-02 06:36pm

Tommy J wrote:I would say to not join if only for the fact that we value 'freedom of religion' as much as we value a separation of church and state.

That being said, the Aliens would be violating both. If religious convictions give some comfort and they don't bother me with preaching or trying to insert it into my government, I say -- you can have it.

And if the 'state' now says you can no longer worship to me that's as bad as someone trying to insert their religion into the state.

They don't want to Purge all religions, just restrict some of them. They don't even plan on completly destroying Islam or Christianity.

Zor

Dark Sider · Post by **Dark Sider** » 2005-03-02 06:55pm

Yes, but you said people going to church should be taxed and no more churches could be built. That certainly is not freedom.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-03-02 07:01pm

Dark Sider wrote:Yes, but you said people going to church should be taxed and no more churches could be built. That certainly is not freedom.

Yeah, but to be honest all freedom in civilized societies have limits and caveats placed on them anyway. It's not a major thing for what is on offer in exchange. It is also arguably a positive thing, as it limits organized religion which is more often than not a force for terrible evil...but does not affect personal belief.

JediToren · Post by **JediToren** » 2005-03-02 07:39pm

Sounds like a win-win situation for us. We put the fundies in their place and put them and their bullshit on a leash. We also get some bitchin' technology and some huge advances in science and medicine.

I don't agree with no churches or mosques being built, just no more fundies and extremist.

I, too, would also like to know what they wanted in exchange. Maybe they are much better people than we are and are good natured enough to give away all this stuff for free, but I would rather be sure.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-03-02 07:49pm

Join and request military assistance to get the world under heel ASAP.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2005-03-02 10:06pm

I like White Haven's idea. Who could be pissed off? The agnostics and atheists are all "lost" to a number of religions anyway and the non-fundamentalist religious people could more than handle religion being a personal commitment, as opposed to an institutionalized monolith I'm sure.

The fundies would see the lot of off-world humans as "lost" or "damned" anyway, so fuck 'em. To each his own. The only people who are screwed over are those yet to be born, as they could be raised a fundie and never get a chance of a better life.

That being said, I can't see a situation that doesn't entail some degree of violence and that is truly regretable.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2005-03-03 12:31am

You can't stop new churches being built. (My friend's basement? Just a nice reading club...) Same with taxes. People will just flee somewhere and do the same things with different names. I wonder whether anyone among the aliens ever had the crazy idea that helping us with education systems and global rule of law would soften and alter the more aggressive aspects of the monotheistic religions.

I disagree with the notion of "outlawing" (ha ha ha) radical monotheistic elements. Just prevent them from ideologically walling themselves off in diploma mills and private schools and the like. Eventually, when exposed to the free market of ideas, they will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

If none of this sways the aliens... then, I'm really, really sorry, my Baptist friends... this is our survival as a species after all...

(Note: I find the notion of brainwashing people out of unacceptable ideas to be abhorrent, as per 1984.)

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Aliens Federation offers mebership, at a price.

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