500,000 Rally in Support of Syrian occupation

[Tommy J]

I really don't understand what the Lebanese people want? First there appears to be overwhelming support for Syria to withdraw and then Hezbollah organizes this massive pro Syrian demonstration.

These is yet another example of why we need to sit back and allow these people to work out their own problems.



MSNBC.com
Nearly half a million pro-Syrian protesters rally in Beirut
Hezbollah mobilizes supporters to counter Lebanese opposition

The Associated Press
Updated: 1:22 p.m. ET March 8, 2005


BEIRUT, Lebanon - Nearly 500,000 pro-Syrian protesters waved flags and chanted anti-American slogans in a central Beirut square Tuesday, answering a nationwide call by the militant Shiite Muslim Hezbollah group for a demonstration to counter weeks of massive rallies demanding Syrian forces leave Lebanon.

Organizers handed out Lebanese flags and directed the men and women to separate sections of the square. Loudspeakers blared militant songs urging resistance to foreign interference. Demonstrators held up pictures of Syrian President Bashar Assad and signs saying, “Syria & Lebanon brothers forever.”

Other placards read: “America is the source of terrorism”; “All our disasters are from America”; “No to American-Zionist intervention; Yes to Lebanese-Syrian brotherhood.”

Black-clad Hezbollah guards handled security, lining the perimeter of the square and taking position on rooftops. Trained dogs sniffed for bombs.

Large cranes hoisted two giant red-and-white flags bearing Lebanon’s cedar tree. On one, the words, “Thank you Syria,” were written in English; on the other, “No to foreign interference.”

The demonstration was in front of U.N. offices. Hezbollah opposes the U.N. resolution drafted by the United States and France last year calling for Syria to withdraw its 14,000 troops from Lebanon.

In Washington, President Bush demanded again that Syria pull its troops out of Lebanon and allow free elections. “All Syrian military forces and intelligence personnel must withdraw before the Lebanese elections for these elections to be free and fair,” he said.


The United States also has demanded that Syria pull out its intelligence agents, and a Syrian official in Damascus said on condition of anonymity Tuesday that the agents would be pulled back along with the regular army.

The square was just a few blocks from another downtown square where opposition protesters have been rallying for days, demanding that Syria withdraw its troops.

Rally eclipses opposition protests
Tuesday’s rally was far bigger than the more than 70,000 anti-Syrian protesters who filled the nearby Martyrs’ Square on Monday. That was the biggest rally yet of anti-Syrian furor, as demonstrators waved Lebanon’s cedar-tree flag and thundered, “Syria out!”

At least one opposition leader said the pro-Syrian government pressured people to turn out Tuesday and some reports said Syria bused in people from across the border.

A day after the Syrian and Lebanese leaders announced that Syrian forces would redeploy to eastern Lebanon before the nations discuss a full withdrawal, most of the troops were still in position, with Associated Press reporters in the mountains overlooking Beirut seeing only scattered movement of military trucks heading toward the Bekaa Valley.

A truck carrying 11 soldiers and supplies headed east at midmorning but most of the military traffic was moving in the other direction — empty trucks and buses traveling west apparently to collect soldiers and equipment.

Hezbollah, a Shiite Muslim group, has been mobilizing its followers from across the country for the protest, also meant to denounce the U.N. resolution that also called for dismantling militias — a point Hezbollah sees as aimed at its well-armed military wing.

Hezbollah is widely admired both within Lebanon and across the Arab world for driving Israeli forces out of the country’s south. It also has the organizational capability and party discipline to mobilize massive street protests, drawing its strength from the Shiite Muslim community, Lebanon’s largest religious sect with 1.2 million people.


In the outlying heavily Shiite regions of the Bekaa and the south, loudspeakers had urged followers to travel to Beirut for the protest.

Opposition leaders, who have been courting Hezbollah’s support to oust Syrian troops, accused Lebanese intelligence agents of exercising pressure on municipalities, public schools and institutions to drive up the number of demonstrators.

Hezbollah officials denied the charges, saying it is part of a campaign to make the demonstration seem “imposed and involuntary.”

Hezbollah, founded by Iran and backed in part by Syria, has emerged as a key player in the latest political instability, capable of tilting the balance either in favor of the government or the opposition.

'One people'
Cabinet Minister Talal Erslan drew cheers Tuesday when he said the crowd came from all over Lebanon “to affirm our gratitude to Syrian president Bashar Assad.”

“We have come here to affirm Lebanon’s independence, sovereignty and unity ... and say no to the flagrant foreign interference in our affairs,” he said.

Participants stressed that the foreign influence they referred to was from the United States, France and other countries, not Syria, which they welcomed.

“Syria should not leave. We are one hand and one people,” said 16-year-old Esraa Awarki, who traveled by bus from Sharkiya in southern Lebanon. “Why do they want us to split now?”


At one point, the crowd observed a moment of silence for former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, whose assassination in a Feb. 14 bombing triggered the weeks of anti-Syrian demonstrations. Many Lebanese accuse Syria and Lebanon’s government of responsibility for Hariri’s death; both deny any involvement.

Faced with incessant international pressure and raging Lebanese opposition, Assad on Saturday announced his troops would withdraw after nearly three decades in Lebanon. On Monday, he met with President Emile Lahoud in Damascus and jointly announced a plan.

But the plan set no deadline for the complete withdrawal of Syrian troops and intelligence agents from Lebanon, and Washington rejected the pullback as insufficient. The plan also was unlikely to satisfy the Lebanese opposition and the rest of the international community.

Washington wants a full withdrawal of Syrian soldiers and intelligence agents before Lebanese parliamentary elections expected in April and May. The White House called the Lebanese-Syrian plan “a half measure.”

Syria has had troops here since 1976, when they were sent as peacekeepers during Lebanon’s 1975-90 civil war. When the war ended, the troops remained and Syria has dominated Lebanon’s politics ever since.

Under the plan announced Monday, all Syrian troops in Lebanon would fall back to eastern regions near Syria by March 31. Military officers will decide by April 30 the duration and size of Syrian forces to remain in that region. After that period, the two governments would decide on a date for pullout.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Its easy to get people to rally when you threaten to kill them. I'd be damn incredulous of those numbers, especially if Hezbollah is doing the counting.

[CaptainChewbacca]

BTW, shouldn't this be in N&P?

[Chmee]

I have very little interest in my nation choosing any Middle Eastern nation's form of government ... let 'em work it out and remember that stability takes decades, not years.

Unfortunately, most of our nation doesn't seem to have enough attention span to cook an egg, so they seem to want instant solutions to every frickin' geopolitical issue.

[Tommy J]

BTW, shouldn't this be in N&P?

Wasn't sure because the conversation could be about the 'morality' of continuing to intervene. Moderator can move if they want.

[Tommy J]

I have very little interest in my nation choosing any Middle Eastern nation's form of government ... let 'em work it out and remember that stability takes decades, not years.

Unfortunately, most of our nation doesn't seem to have enough attention span to cook an egg, so they seem to want instant solutions to every frickin' geopolitical issue.

Question: At what point does the US and Europe just sit back and let a non-Nuclear fueding party just fight it out to the last man, woman and child?

We have security agreements with Israel, but short of that spilling into their terrority I'm (US citizen) getting tired of trying to help resolve problems internationally, to only be blamed by the population for being 'terrorists' as claimed here.

[Steven Snyder]

...I'm (US citizen) getting tired of trying to help resolve problems internationally, to only be blamed by the population for being 'terrorists' as claimed here...

Welcome to the Evil Bastard Club Tommy J.

[Tommy J]

...I'm (US citizen) getting tired of trying to help resolve problems internationally, to only be blamed by the population for being 'terrorists' as claimed here...

Welcome to the Evil Bastard Club Tommy J.

Hey man, I'm trying to claim moral superority, or absolve our President who makes some fucked up decisions sometimes.

It just gets tiresome to be pointed at for TRYING TO HELP and labeled a terrorist. Like the Tsunami aid effort. US help got labeled by some in the Indonesian govt as an 'occupation' of all things.

[Tommy J]

opps..damn, should read, I'm not....but I'm sure everyone got that anyways.

[Steven Snyder]

Hey man, I'm [not] trying to claim moral superority, or absolve our President who makes some fucked up decisions sometimes.

I never said you were.

If Indonesia feels we are infringing on their sovereignty then we need to pack up our food, water, and blankets and get the hell out.

[Civil War Man]

One of the frustrations of being American. If we help, we're infringing on the sovereignty of other countries. If we don't, we're shallow, heartless, and selfish.

An example: First Somalia (granted it was escalated into a military operation, but at the beginning it was entirely humanitarian). America became the bad guy because with all of the resistance, Somalians apparently did not want us there.

Then Rwanda. The negative backlash from Somalia contributed to the US's refusal to send in troops to restore order. America became the bad guy then, too, because we refused to help.

The problems of the US are nowhere near the problems citizens of other countries have to face on a day-to-day basis, but it gets really annoying to constantly be a target in the international politics version of Whack-A-Mole.

[Chmee]

I have very little interest in my nation choosing any Middle Eastern nation's form of government ... let 'em work it out and remember that stability takes decades, not years.

Unfortunately, most of our nation doesn't seem to have enough attention span to cook an egg, so they seem to want instant solutions to every frickin' geopolitical issue.

Question: At what point does the US and Europe just sit back and let a non-Nuclear fueding party just fight it out to the last man, woman and child?

We have security agreements with Israel, but short of that spilling into their terrority I'm (US citizen) getting tired of trying to help resolve problems internationally, to only be blamed by the population for being 'terrorists' as claimed here.

Well, being sort of old fashioned, I'm with the U.N. Charter here ... collective response to aggression is only appropriate to protect the territorial integrity of a sovereign state.

I don't have a problem with using force to send people back to their corners ... using it to re-draw the borders or clumsily try to tell nations how to 'evolve' into something 'more like us' is generally a futile, expensive, and bloody business that we should want no part of.