Phelps: a moral question

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-21 09:05am

Phelps verbally abuses the friends and families of deceased homosexuals by picketing their funerals. If Phelps died, would you picket his funeral?

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 09:21am

Honestly, no. I have no reason to. He can denounce homosexuals all he wants, but it does nothing to me personally. I am who I am, and I am willing to accept that he isn't going to convert form a bigoted ass hole any time soon. That, and he doesn't earn any respect from me, so I'd feel abhorred to be in the same city as him. Now, if the wuestion were "Would you piss on his grave," then I'd gladly say yes.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-11-21 09:21am

Not likely, but I'd certainly toast it happily with a beer.

Of course, I'm sure there are other members of this board how might un-seriously suggest that they wouldn't mind *causing* his funeral, either.

Since I hadn't heard previously that he actually committed an act as heinous as that, I can't be sure, but I'm surprised that he hasn't been met with violence (in the form of kicks to the gut), or at least, massive amounts of media scorn. Or some sort of legal repercussions for the violation of privacy, if one could do so.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-21 09:33am

Darth Wong wrote:Phelps verbally abuses the friends and families of deceased homosexuals by picketing their funerals. If Phelps died, would you picket his funeral?

No. He (and presumably his followers) get off on any attention, even negative attention. They would see that as proof that they were right all along. The irony would be lost on them.

Barring that, I still would not bother stooping to his level. I have no great love for the man, but I can make that known easily enough without having to disrupt his funeral. If anything, let the family grieve and mourne as normal. If you must get in some sort of barb, just simply pay your respects as follows:

Dear Phelps Family,
I am sorry to hear of your loss. I too have had to experience burying a loved one. I've felt that pain as you lay your eyes on them for the last time, knowing that you will never see them again in this world. I wish you the best, and I only hope that you are allowed to express your grief in peace and with those who will lend an understanding ear and shoulder to help bear your pain.

Just remember how it feels to be allowed that luxury, the next time you plan one of your protests. Remember how it felt to put someone you loved into a grave. Remember how it felt the last time you saw his face from the casket. Remember the grief you felt, and imagine how you would have felt if your funeral was being picketed by people with offensive signs, saying that your loved one was going to burn in Hell, and that you would follow soon after. Remember the pain you felt and the tears you shed when you think about bringing your signs, your slogans, and your hate to disrupt the funerals of others.

If your service was disrupted as you have disrupted the funerals of others, I am sorry. Nobody should have to deal with that sort of behavior. Please, forgive any who might disrupt your service, as they know not the pain that they are causing you, rather only the pain that you have caused them.

Once again, you have my condolances.

Sincerely,
Fah Kiew

Obviously, the signature is optional.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-21 09:34am

Nah. I'd never sink to his level ... human SLIME.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-21 09:35am

OK, how about beating the shit out of him while he's alive?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-21 09:42am

Darth Wong wrote:OK, how about beating the shit out of him while he's alive?

Personally, after reading the expose over at http://www.godhatesfundies.com I'm tempted to say lock the fucker up with a big guy named Bubba and throw away the key. His religious views and deplorable tact at funerals aside, that sick shit beat the living crap out of his kids and his wife. For that, he should rot in jail for the rest of his natural life, in my opinion.

I'd be tempted to beat the shit out of him, but only for a moment. He'd probably enjoy it more than I would, and I'd rather not give him that satisfaction. Just lock the fucker up.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 09:45am

Sorry, not violent enough.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-11-21 09:51am

Darth Wong wrote:OK, how about beating the shit out of him while he's alive?

Well, I'd love to see if he had the gonads to stand nose to...um...chest with me and agressively tell me that I'm a sinner worthy of death. I doubt I'd throw a punch at him, but it'd be funny to see him squeal if he thought he was about to get decked by a guy who could doubtless break his nose doing so.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-21 10:20am

I doubt I would picket his funeral, I might do something hilariously inappropriate though.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-11-21 03:05pm

Normally, I'd say no, as it wouldn't do anything to him, just cause harm and suffering to his family.

However, since his family willingly participates in his deplorable little acts, I'd take a CD cut of Springtime for Hitler and picket the bastard's funeral right up until they throw the last shovelful of dirt on the casket.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-21 03:42pm

What is it that's preventing the families of homosexuals for suing the living shit out of Phelps for intentional infliction of emotional distress? I know that if I had to listen to someone defaming my deceased loved one at his/her funeral, I would be severely damaged.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-21 03:48pm

Durran Korr wrote:What is it that's preventing the families of homosexuals for suing the living shit out of Phelps for intentional infliction of emotional distress? I know that if I had to listen to someone defaming my deceased loved one at his/her funeral, I would be severely damaged.

That's a good question. Does Phelps have a lot of money, hence a lot of lawyers? Or is the legal case not so cut-and-dried? It's not a case of negligence, fraud, or breach of contract, like most lawsuits. It's a case of remarkably cruel use of public speech and demonstration rights; maybe it's hard to sue someone for that.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-11-21 03:54pm

I'd probably hire an actor to pose as Phelps gay lover, and make him go to his casket and cry over it and say stuff like "We loved each other, how can God be so unfair to separate us." etc.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-21 03:55pm

I don't think demostration rights would matter much in an intentional infliction of emotional distress case; clearly, Phelps's behavior was 1) outrageous and 2) carried out with the deliberate intention of causing mental damage to the loved ones of the deceased. If someone were able to prove that he/she had suffered from symptoms typically associated with mental distress, like headaches and sleeplessness, he/she might be able to win this case.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-11-21 04:04pm

That's a good question. Does Phelps have a lot of money, hence a lot of lawyers? Or is the legal case not so cut-and-dried? It's not a case of negligence, fraud, or breach of contract, like most lawsuits. It's a case of remarkably cruel use of public speech and demonstration rights; maybe it's hard to sue someone for that

Phelps' whole family is made up of lawyers. They ve made money in the past by winning several lawsuits concerning freedom of speech. I think thats how they have the time and money to run around screaming like they do.Trying to sue them might be like hitting the tar baby.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-11-21 04:15pm

It's rather clever planning on his part; since his entire family is made of both money and lawyers, it's hard to sue him because he can sue back.

What would be really cool is a coalition of pro bono lawyers who try to pull Phelps down. But that's something of a pipedream.

johnmarkley · Post by **johnmarkley** » 2002-11-21 04:29pm

I could never desecrate a man's funeral, even if he's a scumbag like Phelps, who richly deserves it. However, when he does make his passage to Hell, I say we all gather for some Guinness to celebrate.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-11-21 04:40pm

Phelps won't give a shit if you protest his funeral because he'd be dead. You'd piss off his asshole family, but not him personally. If someone in his fucked up family dies, you should protest that funeral.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-11-21 07:08pm

Personally, I'd rather that he retain a conscious/spiritual state after his death and find out that his beliefs were total bullshit.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-21 09:00pm

I wouldn't picket his funeral. I would, however, ensure that it is conducted before he dies. After all, if they think he's dead, they won't be looking for my Medieval torture chamber.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-21 09:04pm

Darth Wong wrote:Phelps verbally abuses the friends and families of deceased homosexuals by picketing their funerals. If Phelps died, would you picket his funeral?

I have better thing to do then draw attention to such a person.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-11-21 09:07pm

If I would go, I'd do the eulogy.

"Phelps's God was a bigoted asshole, and so was he. May we celebrate his passing."

Still, I wouldn't protest. I'd celebreate it, or visit his grave to take a piss, but I wouldn't have the time for a protest.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-21 09:08pm

Heh heh someone agrees with me....pissing on his grave.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2002-11-22 12:43am

Darth Wong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:What is it that's preventing the families of homosexuals for suing the living shit out of Phelps for intentional infliction of emotional distress? I know that if I had to listen to someone defaming my deceased loved one at his/her funeral, I would be severely damaged.
That's a good question. Does Phelps have a lot of money, hence a lot of lawyers? Or is the legal case not so cut-and-dried? It's not a case of negligence, fraud, or breach of contract, like most lawsuits. It's a case of remarkably cruel use of public speech and demonstration rights; maybe it's hard to sue someone for that.

Phelps used to be a lawyer and is known for being a royal pain in the ass in court.

The Topeka Capital-Journal wrote:Before he was disbarred and surrendered his law license, Fred Phelps gained a reputation as a sharp, competent civil rights attorney whose eloquent and fiery orations mesmerized juries.

"You always had to be ready for him," a veteran lawyer in Topeka said.

Phelps was considered a gifted and skilled trial lawyer, one of the best in eastern Kansas.

(....)

In September 1973, Mark Phelps, 19, and Fred Phelps Jr., 20, bought a 12-inch color television from the Sears store in Topeka and put the set on layaway. The TV cost $184.59.

They made a $20 payment to hold the TV in layaway, made a second payment the next month and paid the balance in November 1973. After the final payment, Sears store employees told them the television set wasn't available.

According to court documents filed for the Phelps sons, the TV had been sold to someone else, but Sears employees said they would order another one that would be available by Christmas 1973. Three days later, the Phelpses filed a $50 million class-action lawsuit against Sears on behalf of 1 million people who had ever used Sears' layaway plan.

(....) After nearly six years, countless hours of legal work and an original request of $50 million, the case was settled in favor of the Phelpses for $126.34, an amount lower than the original cost of the television set.

(and...)

In 1984, Phelps sued the president of the United States.

The reason? Phelps opposed then-President Ronald Reagan's appointment of an ambassador to the Vatican.

A local newspaper, the Topeka Capital-Journal, has an entire section of their web site devoted to Rev. Fred Phelps Sr.

http://www.cjonline.com/webindepth/phelps/

There are archives of articles from the newspaper, photo galleries, audio and video downloads, message boards, and even an open letter from ol' Fred himself.

What's ironic is that he won several civil rights awards in the distant past

I couldn't reasonably picket his funeral, but I admit, I would sure want to.

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