If abortion is so evil...

[Joe]

...if, in the minds of "pro-life" Christians abortion really is the wanton destruction of a living human being with an eternal soul, isn't there an inconsistency in the beliefs and actions of Christians? Think about it; at the very least hundreds of thousands of fetuses are aborted a year in America. Most estimates I've seen say that well over 40 million fetuses have been aborted since Roe v. Wade.

If all those fetuses really are human beings with a "right to life" like the pro-lifers say they are, well, then what's been happening since 1973 is murder on a massive, organized, and state-sponsored scale. I mean, if I thought that 40 million of my fellow citizens were being slaughtered with government permission and grace, I would take up arms without hesitation and fight to bring it down at the expense of my own life, and I'm positive that I wouldn't be the only one who felt that way. I mean, this would be a clear example of the government becoming destructive to the lives of the people in a huge way, which would not only justify but demand armed revolt. I can imagine no system of ethics calling for anything otherwise.

I am not saying that I agree with the pro-lifers (I view abortion as nothing more than a more invasive form of birth control, for the record), nor that I think all pro-lifers should arise in armed revolt. I'm just saying, that, in a way, the nuts who blow up abortion doctors, are, in a way, the most morally consistent of all the anti-abortionists. They don't sit back and let millions of sentient human beings (again, from a pro-life perspective, not mine) be murdered like the more moderate pro-lifers do, they take action.

Just food for thought.

[Enforcer Talen]

http://www.losingmyreligion.com/essays/ ... lists.html

I wonder how consistent they should get in their views.

[xtashinatorx]

Yeah then there's that whole "Thou shalt not kill," and the bible says you leave judgement up to God, not to take matters into your own hands. It doesn't matter if they're avenging the deaths of millions of "people," they're choosing what and what not to follow in the Bible.

[Enforcer Talen]

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/abortion.html

god gets to kill babies, not you

[Wicked Pilot]

Yeah then there's that whole "Thou shalt not kill," and the bible says you leave judgement up to God, not to take matters into your own hands. It doesn't matter if they're avenging the deaths of millions of "people," they're choosing what and what not to follow in the Bible.

I find that very interesting seeing how those who are pro-life generally support the death penality.

[Queeb Salaron]

Yeah then there's that whole "Thou shalt not kill," and the bible says you leave judgement up to God, not to take matters into your own hands. It doesn't matter if they're avenging the deaths of millions of "people," they're choosing what and what not to follow in the Bible.

I find that very interesting seeing how those who are pro-life generally support the death penality.

Really? I think that's a sweeping generalization that's not entirely accurate. If you call everyone who is anti-abortion "pro-life," and if your definition of "pro-life" is exclusively "anti-abortion," then maybe you're right. There are plenty of people who are anti-abortion (for whatever reason) and pro-capital punishment.

I'd like to see statistics to back up the claim that "those who are pro-life generally support the death penalty."

[Wicked Pilot]

If you call everyone who is anti-abortion "pro-life," and if your definition of "pro-life" is exclusively "anti-abortion," then maybe you're right. There are plenty of people who are anti-abortion (for whatever reason) and pro-capital punishment.

On this issue I call people by the titles they give themselves.

I'd like to see statistics to back up the claim that "those who are pro-life generally support the death penalty."

Those are two major social tenants of the Republican party. It seems almost obvious that a correlation exist, but alas I have no statistics. I'll see if I can dig something up for you.

[Alyrium Denryle]

hehe, what gets me about them is that their entire argument is an argument based upon potential... and yet, they also tend to abstain from sex.

Everytime they turn down getting laid, they are premptively murdering a child, because they are refusing to allow a potential human to come into existence...

[Alyrium Denryle]

Yeah then there's that whole "Thou shalt not kill," and the bible says you leave judgement up to God, not to take matters into your own hands. It doesn't matter if they're avenging the deaths of millions of "people," they're choosing what and what not to follow in the Bible.

I find that very interesting seeing how those who are pro-life generally support the death penality.

which is why I am boith pro-abortion and pro-capital punishment

[Wicked Pilot]

Here's my first catch:

In 1998, while 76 percent of those accepting any reason a woman might give for an abortion also favored the death penalty, 72.5 percent of those who opposed some abortions also supported the death penalty

It's not as clear cut as I'd like, nor does it provide any details as to where and how it got it's info, so I'll see about bringing in something better tommorrow.

[Queeb Salaron]

Here's my first catch:

In 1998, while 76 percent of those accepting any reason a woman might give for an abortion also favored the death penalty, 72.5 percent of those who opposed some abortions also supported the death penalty

It's not as clear cut as I'd like, nor does it provide any details as to where and how it got it's info, so I'll see about bringing in something better tommorrow.

Yeah, that doesn't say much more than "People who oppose certain types of abortion (not all abortions, or even most abortions) favor the death penalty."

[xtashinatorx]

Bill O'Riley, a major tool in my book, called Planned Parenthood a "Pro-abortion orginization." It annoys me when people say that a certain group of people, or an orginization. are "pro-abortion" It's not pro-abortion. It's pro-choice. They're advocating the right to CHOOSE. To choose wether to have one, or to choose to be against it.

[Straha]

Bill O'Riley, a major tool in my book, called Planned Parenthood a "Pro-abortion orginization." It annoys me when people say that a certain group of people, or an orginization. are "pro-abortion" It's not pro-abortion. It's pro-choice. They're advocating the right to CHOOSE. To choose wether to have one, or to choose to be against it.

Let him call them what he wants, the 'pro-choice' crowd generally throws around the term 'anti-choice' whenever it deals with conservatives like O'Riley even though they would stringintly advocate that they're not anti-choice, they just advocate LIFE...

[tharkûn]

Why don't the hardcore prolifers rise up in revolt? Because they still beleive they can affect a political solution. Armed resistence is a last resort, and let's face it the legal pendulum is swinging in their favor. They rightly beleive that they can use their massive electoral clout to curtail, overturn, or otherwise gut Roe v. Wade. If the movement went terrorist, all of their political capital goes up in smoke, the "enemy" is given countless martyrs to hold up to the public, and they are committed to an attritionary battle they can only win by killing enough Americans that the survivors don't think legalizing abortion is worth the bloodprice to keep.

In realpolitik terms they are far more likely to end abortion at the ballot box and through judicial nominees than they could ever hope to force by bloodletting. Further recriminalizing abortion is not their end goal, the saving of human life is - which means that they have to convert young women to their side of the fence rather than just drive the practice underground. I fail to see how the utilitarian calculus would favor armed revolt when they still have clout at the ballot box and are making inroads on the legal front.