Why is Facism Sexy?

[Stravo]

Look at the people on this board with their love affair with the Empire. The Nazi Germany lovers. The Imperium of Man adorers (OK I may have gone too far looking for adjectives there) they all share a common root love. They seem to think that facism is sexy.

Something about a totalatarian government with cool toys and uniforms is incredibly attractive - especially to peopel that would never serve in a militray or support such a government in RL. I mean look at our Impie lovers on this board then look at Bush - the closest we've come to a fascist president in my lifetime - and the visceral hatred that he inspires yet Palpatine who did manufacture a war, is responsible for trillions of deaths and the destruction of guardians of peace and order is 'cool'.

So what is it about that form of government (or one very much like it) that attracts people?

[lazerus]

Personally, it all comes down to power.

Charachters like Vader and Palptine did whatever they want, whenever they wanted, and got to look damn cool doing it. For historical figures like Hitler, he may have been a nutcase who killed millions of people, but he got to change the world and inspire millions, which is more then 99.99% of the world will ever be able to do.

Bush has the power, but he's too much of an idiot who's clearly being manipulated by outside forces to be "cool".

[Firefox]

Cool uniforms and weapons.

[RedImperator]

Spiffy uniforms and general coolness. Luke Skywalker might be a hero, but he's also a dork.

You don't see this in situations where the hero is cool. Nobody roots for TOS Klingons against Kirk, because Kirk is a cool hero. And you don't see it in situations where the villain sucks--nobody roots for the Kazons against Janeway, because Janeway's lame, but the Kazons suck so hard they have their own event horizon (no word on if there are any cracks in it).

[Enforcer Talen]

uniforms. music. parades. big militaristic romps that look damn kewl.

[Tommy J]

Look at the people on this board with their love affair with the Empire. The Nazi Germany lovers. The Imperium of Man adorers (OK I may have gone too far looking for adjectives there) they all share a common root love. They seem to think that facism is sexy.

Something about a totalatarian government with cool toys and uniforms is incredibly attractive - especially to peopel that would never serve in a militray or support such a government in RL. I mean look at our Impie lovers on this board then look at Bush - the closest we've come to a fascist president in my lifetime - and the visceral hatred that he inspires yet Palpatine who did manufacture a war, is responsible for trillions of deaths and the destruction of guardians of peace and order is 'cool'.

So what is it about that form of government (or one very much like it) that attracts people?

From a sociological perspective it's probably fascinating to try to understand why people are megalomaniacs. Look at how many books have been written about Hitler and his background in an attempt to understand his twisted mind. Theories about everything from his alleged impotence to troubled family life circulate. These types of people are so different from us and their crimes so heinous I think there is a human desire to try to understand why another fellow human could fall so far off the wagon that the rest of us are riding on.

With regard to fascism in general: cool uniforms, pep rallies that make the super bowl look like a block party, grand visions, huge monuments, cool toys like the V-2 rocket, and buildings that make our capital building look like the country court house.

[brianeyci]

There is the general idea of a "vision" or a "destiny" associated with facism. The hand signals, the rallies, the uniforms, the "thousand year Reich", and even the "final solution" all hint at an underlying theme of divine will.

I doubt that many people think this way except neo-Nazis though. Generally, discipline is attractive. A disciplined government and military even more so.

Brian

[Petrosjko]

I think there are roots in the same fascination people have with bondage and domination, the allure of power as was mentioned before.

For me and my obvious enjoyment of the 40K Imperium, it really amounts to my exploration of that fanatical fundamentalist mindset. It gives me the ability to a look into the mirror, to see values and ideals twisted into a warped yet recognizable form.

In our 40K game over in G&C, sometimes I'll sit back and go 'Wow, that's some pretty twisted shit.' But I can see how it forms and progresses, instead of attributing it to mustache-twirling evil.

[Sam Or I]

Good queston, I think it has to do with some people are dawn to power, the shroud of mystery behind it. (Hell, look at Scott Peterson, women are throwing themselves at him not that he is a convicted murderer, I mean WTF!?!?!)

It could be a freud thing, they do it for the women.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I believe people desire Fascism because people seem to be drawn to things that they know are bad, but since they never have really experienced it, they want to know regardless. They attatch a type of nostaligia to it, making it into something it wasn't.

[wolveraptor]

when people fantasize about facist governments, they never fantasize about being one of the mindless grunts that gets slaughtered in a military campaign. they want to be the emperor. millions of dollars...hordes of minions that worship and fear you...a castle so large its mass will rip the earth from its very orbit...a super weapon so ridiculously large that its gravitational mass and warpage of space-time makes it into a black hole...the absolute dominion of the world...the evil laugh (muhahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!)

who wouldn't want to be the emporer?!?!

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think it's very simple--the fascination with force and the Nietzchean ideal. A fascist government is everything that a young man wants to be.

Think about it. The fascist government rules with nothing but strength. It rejects all previous concepts of political legitimacy in favor of rule by main force, and it encourages its adherents to do the same thing with respect to moral legitimacy. Power politics is seductive because it's what so many people secretly want--to overthrow by main force all of the rules that contain them, and make their own rules. Fascism promises to make you the alpha male. Combine that with its open rejection of reason, which allows the follower to reject any idea he doesn't like or understand without having to make any intellectual excuse, and you've got the sexiest political force in history. It says "It's your right to take anything you want and destroy everything you hate, because you are the strong."

That applies to real-world fascism, of course. In the case of the Galactic Empire, I would say we can't really tell what the Empire actually was from either the films or the novels. It's authoritarian, certainly, but beyond that we don't know. There was a popular thing among EU authors to say "the Empire did this and it did that, so it's evil" but I wouldn't say that it really fits the mold of a Fascist power.

[Wicked Pilot]

Evil will always triumph because good it dumb.

[speaker-to-trolls]

As already stated, the disciplined army and government, as well as the spectacle of such regimes, is appealing. I think people also like to think that a government is going somewhere, that it has a grand mission, look at how many people here like the Romans. People like the idea that the empire in question is expanding, that it is ambitious, that it has a plan and goals, nevermind the reality of how these things are achieved.

[Guardsman Bass]

In our politics class, the teacher just did a Hitler imitation where he bashed Stalin. But anyways, I believe that Fascism is attractive for the same reason people join a new cult or religious crusade: it gives meaning and power.

Think about it; the Fascist leader comes up, and says, "My brothers! Today we lie in destruction and defeat! But it is not our fault! We have been betrayed, and are hated for our purity and power! Come, let us join together, and we will obtain what we truly deserve, what the strong deserve! Let us go to war!" It gives emotional meaning, and hope. Not to mention the (initial) attractiveness about being part of a great military "war" or "crusade" for the fatherland.

[Chmee]

It's the pack animal mentality ... most of the species is still looking for an Alpha to follow, no matter what kind of idiot the Alpha really is.

Those of us who 'don't understand' that mentality (yours truly) are rogues ... we're the junior males & females who would rather wander away from the tribe and explore new territories, make our own tribe, find our own mates, instead of submitting to an Alpha that we think is an idiot.

America used to be a nation of rogues, but we seem to be sliding into a sickening majority of pack-followers who will follow anybody that promises that everything will be okay ... while simultaneously stealing all the bananas and tellilng us it's good for the tribe.

[Pick]

... The futile hope someday you'd be the ass in charge of it.

[NecronLord]

It's the uniforms.

OK, being a bit more serious, it's about power. People are attracted to power, and the ability to weild it without restriction.

[salm]

a large part are all the symbols. facists tend to have cool symbols such as cool flag designs, architecture that´s value is 95% symbolic, the uniforms of course. the nazis even managed to turn people, aryans that is, into symbols.

people love symbols. esspecially if they radiate power.

[Imperial Overlord]

It's allure is about power, spectacle, and belonging. Throw in a a little Nietzchean will to power and the thrill of legally sanctioned brutality and ruthlessness directed at people it is okay to hate (traitors, heretics, jews, whatever) and you appea to primal human drives. The member gains a sense of belonging, encouraged (instead of discouraged) to indulge his aggression, a place above someone in the power hierarchy, and has sanction to break the rules of society.

Most of this has been said before, but I think the importance of spectacle and that of attaining a high place on a power hierarchy are important additions. People have fantasies of being captains of Imperial Star Destroyers, the masters of magnificent warships, not lowly cogs in the machine.

As a side note, I don't think the Imperium of Man is in quite the same category as the rest of the facists governments. While it shares many of the same characteristics, it is fucked up, feudal distopia perpetually tottering on the brink of collapse. It's a jury rigged ediface that is trying to hold together under massive pressure, not a manifestation some kind of commanding will (despite what IoM propaganda may say). It's deliberately extremely distopian society and the reality behind its paranoid control measures and fear introduce additional elements.

[Junghalli]

I'd agree with most of what people have already said. Part of it is the thought of being the dictator with absolute life and death power over an entire country/planet/galaxy. Who wouldn't find that enticing?
Another part is that warmongering dictatorial governments give you a sense of resolution and purpose that democracies don't. Think of what the vast majority of them tell their subjects. "You belong to the uber-race, destined to eventually rule the entire world/galaxy! You are naturally superior to everybody else by simple accident of your birth! Now get out there and claim what's rightfully yours!" It's an incredibly seductive message.
Overlord's right about the IoM. It's a special case in that unlike most nasty societies it actually has a very good justification for being what it is. A free society like ours would be the perfect breeding ground for Chaos subversions. Tzeentch and Slaanesh especially would probably blow their loads at the thought of being let loose in modern America or western Europe.
Another interesting special case is the Draka. Theoretically they have everything you need for an uber-kewl dictatorship (lust for absolute power, Neitzchian ideology, belief in themselves as the uber-race destined to rule the universe, huge army etc.) but everybody seems to instantly recognize them as pure scum. Probably it has something to do with the way their atrocities are presented. Watching them massacre a whole village except for the women who they then gang-bang and sell into serfdom somehow seems to hit people on a deeper level than watching an inhabited planet being incinerated from orbit and knowing that billions are being slaughtered, but only a purely intellectual level.

[HemlockGrey]

Simple! Facism promises what is good in life. And what is good in life?

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

That said, people who support/admire facist governments would virtually all revolt or, at the very least, bitch endlessly, if they lived in one (yeah, Spanky, that includes you too).

[speaker-to-trolls]

Another interesting special case is the Draka. Theoretically they have everything you need for an uber-kewl dictatorship (lust for absolute power, Neitzchian ideology, belief in themselves as the uber-race destined to rule the universe, huge army etc.) but everybody seems to instantly recognize them as pure scum. Probably it has something to do with the way their atrocities are presented. Watching them massacre a whole village except for the women who they then gang-bang and sell into serfdom somehow seems to hit people on a deeper level than watching an inhabited planet being incinerated from orbit and knowing that billions are being slaughtered, but only a purely intellectual level.

I think you've brought up areally good point here, people only like the idea of facism/pseudo-facism if they don't have to face up to what it really means. Once its described to them how the governments soldiers are killing people up close and personal it becomes more real, it's much easier to accept the murder of human beings when you can't see it happening.

[Enforcer Talen]

I dunno. I think its viewed as sexay when its industrialized.

you killed 6 million people? my god, you must have up gotten very early in the morning to do that!

its almost like a 'bravo' thing.

[Mr. T]

In an interview with George Lucas I saw once, the interviewer asked him why kids seem to always be more interested in Darth Vader than they are in Luke Skywalker. Lucas's response was that kids are attracted to power, and Vader and the empire are the ultimate manifestation of power. I would think that its a similar reason for why so many of us are attracted to the power of facism seen in these movies. But of course, most of us are sane enough to realise the difference between fantasy and reality, which is the reason many of us don't find the current Bush administration "cool" or "Baddass".