The legacy of Agent Orange

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

Post Reply
User avatar
Keevan_Colton
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10355
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:57pm
Location: In the Land of Logic and Reason, two doors down from Lilliput and across the road from Atlantis...
Contact:

The legacy of Agent Orange

Post by Keevan_Colton »

Thirty years after hostilities ended between the US and Vietnam, relations remain strained by one of America's most notorious weapons during the war, the chemical Agent Orange.

The Vietnamese believe that the powerful weed killer - the use of which was intended to destroy crops and jungle providing cover for the Vietcong - is responsible for massively high instances of genetic defects in areas that were sprayed.

Nguyen Trong Nhan, from the Vietnam Association Of Victims Of Agent Orange and a former president of Vietnamese Red Cross, believes the use of Agent Orange was a "war crime".

He told BBC World Service's One Planet programme that Vietnam's poverty was a direct result of the use of Agent Orange.

"They are the poorest and the most vulnerable people - and that is why Vietnam is a very poor country," he said.

"We help the people who are victims of the Agent Orange and the dioxins, but the capacity of our government is very limited."

Contaminated areas

Campaigners such as Mr Nguyen believe they have been left with little choice but to resort to legal action, and in 2004 took the chemical companies that produced Agent Orange to court in the US.

But last month an American Federal District Judge dismissed the case on the grounds that use of the defoliant did not violate international law that the time. An appeal has been lodged against this decision.

The US sprayed 80m litres of poisonous chemicals during Operation Ranchhand. There were many Agents used, including Pink, Green and White, but Agent Orange was used the most - 45m litres sprayed over a 10th of Vietnam.

It was also used - mostly in secret - over parts of neighbouring Cambodia.

Thirty years after hostilities ended between the US and Vietnam, relations remain strained by one of America's most notorious weapons during the war, the chemical Agent Orange.

The Vietnamese believe that the powerful weed killer - the use of which was intended to destroy crops and jungle providing cover for the Vietcong - is responsible for massively high instances of genetic defects in areas that were sprayed.

Nguyen Trong Nhan, from the Vietnam Association Of Victims Of Agent Orange and a former president of Vietnamese Red Cross, believes the use of Agent Orange was a "war crime".

He told BBC World Service's One Planet programme that Vietnam's poverty was a direct result of the use of Agent Orange.

"They are the poorest and the most vulnerable people - and that is why Vietnam is a very poor country," he said.

"We help the people who are victims of the Agent Orange and the dioxins, but the capacity of our government is very limited."

Contaminated areas

Campaigners such as Mr Nguyen believe they have been left with little choice but to resort to legal action, and in 2004 took the chemical companies that produced Agent Orange to court in the US.

But last month an American Federal District Judge dismissed the case on the grounds that use of the defoliant did not violate international law that the time. An appeal has been lodged against this decision.

The US sprayed 80m litres of poisonous chemicals during Operation Ranchhand. There were many Agents used, including Pink, Green and White, but Agent Orange was used the most - 45m litres sprayed over a 10th of Vietnam.

It was also used - mostly in secret - over parts of neighbouring Cambodia.

"This is due to the US sprayings," said Dr Hong Tien Dong, village doctor who has lived in the area all his life.

"Before, in this area, the environment was quite clean.

"Now it has become like this."

In the late 1990s, a Canadian study tested soil, pond water, fish and duck tissue, as well as human blood samples, and found dangerously high levels of dioxin travelling up the food chain to humans.

Dioxin concentrations have been found to be 13 times higher than average in the soil of affected areas, and, in human fat tissue, 20 times as high.

A Japanese study, comparing areas sprayed with those that were not, found children were three times more likely to be born with cleft pallets, or extra fingers and toes.

There are eight times as many hernias in such children, and three times as many born with mental disabilities.

In 2001, scientists found that people living in an Agent Orange "hotspot" at Binh-Hoa near Ho Chi Minh City have 200 times the background amount of dioxin in their bloodstreams.

Humanitarian opportunity

America "normalised" relations with Vietnam 10 years ago, and the country has now embraced the free market.

No representative of the US government in Vietnam would talk to One Planet about Agent Orange.

However, in 1984, chemical companies that manufactured the Agent paid $180m into a fund for United States veterans following a lawsuit. They did not, however, admit any wrongdoing.

Meanwhile in 2004 - at the same time Mr Nguyen first brought his lawsuit - a joint-US-Vietnamese project to examine the long-term genetic impact of Agent Orange was cancelled.

Some Americans in Vietnam fear that the legacy of Agent Orange is overshadowing the new friendship between the two countries.

"Many of the other obstacles have been dealt with - trade and exchange and diplomatic relations," said Andrew Wells-Dang, from the Fund For Reconciliation And Development - an American organisation set up in the 1980s with the aim of improving relations between the countries.

He pointed out that the US has provided funding for clearing mines that it dropped on Vietnam during the war.

"We think the US should do the same with Agent Orange" he added.

"It's not going to go away, because it affects a huge number of people in Vietnam.

"We would see this as an opportunity for the US to take humanitarian action so that it doesn't become an obstacle between the countries."
BBC

The first picture in the linked article is pretty disturbing.
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
User avatar
Executor32
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2088
Joined: 2004-01-31 03:48am
Location: In a Georgia courtroom, watching a spectacle unfold

Post by Executor32 »

Disturbing? It's downright horrifying. :shock:
どうして?お前が夜に自身お触れるから。
Long ago in a distant land, I, Aku, the shape-shifting Master of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil,
but a foolish samurai warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow
was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law! Now, the fool
seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is Aku...
-Aku, Master of Masters, Deliverer of Darkness, Shogun of Sorrow
User avatar
Chmee
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4449
Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?

Post by Chmee »

Yeah, I read that right after breakfast today, disturbing in the extreme.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer
.

Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"

Operation Freedom Fry
User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Did the U.S. know at that time that Orange contained or would break down into these dioxins? If so I would rule in favor of the Vietnamese.
Image Image
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Did the U.S. know at that time that Orange contained or would break down into these dioxins?
The danger wasn't really known, but the product was intended and the barrel it came in where labeled that it was for only limited and carefully controlled use. That didn't happen of course, for a variety of reasons (VC AAA fire aimed at the spraying planes was one of them though). The troops spraying the stuff had no idea at all of any possible risk; in many cases Agent Orange was sprayed around fire bases using backpack pumps. Soldiers would actually squirt each other with the things. Then they would later wonder why there skin was covered in rashes, which along with most other symptoms got attributed to the effects of the heat and jungle.

IIRC, don't quote me on it, the total weight of dioxin dumped on Veitnam in these agents was about forty pounds...
If so I would rule in favor of the Vietnamese.
They aren't going to get shit. You should take a look at the efforts the US's own servicemen have had to go through for decades in an attempt to get compensation. The whole situation is totally fucked up.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Post Reply