Christian questions

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 02:01am

Technically, this should be OT, but I want the apoligist to see it. Anyway, this is where you ask all those nagging questions about christianity and God, like...

If Christianity is moral, then why do people need to apoligize for being Christians?

Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

Why does God need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a law he made himself?

Okay, so God created the universe, but what has he done since then?

Why do Christians work so hard for someone that never shows them any respect?

Why does God think it more important to build churches than to help starving kids in Africa?

If no one can find God without faith, then what happens when God loses faith in himself?

And so on...

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-29 02:04am

I think it's a Book of Timothy (MAYBE...somebody else, if not) that has been discounted by the Vatican as a book of the Bible that said there was to be no churches built. If I were a Christian and somebodyt asked me why, then I would use that as my reason. It says that God's home is your heart, not a building made by man. Anything made by man is unholy, and thus churches would be unholy. Just as input.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-29 02:08am

data_link wrote:Technically, this should be OT, but I want the apoligist to see it. Anyway, this is where you ask all those nagging questions about christianity and God, like...

If Christianity is moral, then why do people need to apoligize for being Christians?

Good question. Why the hell indeed?

Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

That's what 2000 years of blind adherence to tradition does to you.

Why does God need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a law he made himself?

What law? According to the fluff, Jesus sacrificed himself to remove the sin of the world. (Yes I am Christian, so what? Doesn't mean you have to be too.) Apparently it was a symbolic thing.

Okay, so God created the universe, but what has he done since then?

If you were to believe the fluff, alternate between scourging the rest of humanity with plagues death and terror while giving the Israelites walkover victories everywhere. Of course he got tired of this somewhere near the end of the Old testament and made the Israelites suffer too from then on.

Why do Christians work so hard for someone that never shows them any respect?

It's a faith thing. Their faith is strong. Though a tad misguided IMO.

Why does God think it more important to build churches than to help starving kids in Africa?

Beats me. Maybe it's the people's fault. Maybe it's God's fault. HTF should I know?

If no one can find God without faith, then what happens when God loses faith in himself?

I remember a Family Circus cartoon once... one of the kids was looking up at Santa and saying, "Do you beleive in yourself?"

Just my 2 cents.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 02:19am

Um, ESB... the point of this thread wasn't to answer the questions, just to ask them so as to mock the apoligist. That's why I said this belonged in OT.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-29 02:20am

data_link wrote:Um, ESB... the point of this thread wasn't to answer the questions, just to ask them so as to mock the apoligist. That's why I said this belonged in OT.

Sorry. My bad.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-11-29 03:35am

data_link wrote:Technically, this should be OT, but I want the apoligist to see it. Anyway, this is where you ask all those nagging questions about christianity and God, like...

If Christianity is moral, then why do people need to apoligize for being Christians?

Because a lot of the things espoused in the Bible are not moral by today's standards. And Christians have been known to ram their religion down the throats of others.

data_link wrote: Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

This is a question that would require much research. Who the hell do I look like, Cecil Adams?

data_link wrote: Why does God need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a law he made himself?

There was actually no changing of the laws. Jesus said that the laws should be followed.

data_link wrote: Okay, so God created the universe, but what has he done since then?

He's been hiding. And with his track record, I don't blame him.

data_link wrote: Why do Christians work so hard for someone that never shows them any respect?

God demands respect. Otherwise you go to Hell. Of course, you're going to Hell anyway.

data_link wrote: Why does God think it more important to build churches than to help starving kids in Africa?

Because God is a narcisisstic, egotistical, and self-important kind of guy.

data_link wrote: If no one can find God without faith, then what happens when God loses faith in himself?

Then he vanishes in a blaze of illogic.

And so on...[/quote]

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-29 03:36am

*ahem* These were for the Apologist (Read: data_link's reply to ESB).

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-11-29 02:51pm

verilon wrote:I think it's a Book of Timothy (MAYBE...somebody else, if not) that has been discounted by the Vatican as a book of the Bible that said there was to be no churches built. If I were a Christian and somebodyt asked me why, then I would use that as my reason. It says that God's home is your heart, not a building made by man. Anything made by man is unholy, and thus churches would be unholy. Just as input.

that's a bloody depressing thought. doesnt really work as a philosophy either. Christ was a carpenter, for a while, and so made things. . . and as he is sinless, making things cant be immoral.

or maybe just making tables is moral. I predict a new cult soon.

The Apologist · Post by **The Apologist** » 2002-11-29 04:01pm

If Christianity is moral, then why do people need to apoligize for being Christians?

"Apology" primarily means "a formal justification."

Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

Poor taste in fashion.

Why does God need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a law he made himself?

So that He could bring unto Himself the beings He created for Himself.

Okay, so God created the universe, but what has he done since then?

Almost everything.

Why do Christians work so hard for someone that never shows them any respect?

Do we deserve anything from God?

Why does God think it more important to build churches than to help starving kids in Africa?

Um.

No.

If no one can find God without faith, then what happens when God loses faith in himself?

Um.

No.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2002-11-29 04:11pm

data_link wrote: Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

It's a test of blind faith. Hundreds of years ago, if people made fun of the hat, they were burned. If they ignored it, they were true Christians.

...

Do you have a better explanation, then?

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 04:21pm

W007! The Apoligist has responded:

The Apoligist wrote:"Apology" primarily means "a formal justification."

No, "Apology" primarily means "A statement of acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense." Suggest you purchase a dictionary.

The Apoligist wrote:Poor taste in fashion.

Okay, no disagreement from me here.

The Apoligist wrote:So that He could bring unto Himself the beings He created for Himself.

So you admit that God created the world for himself and his own selfish desires, in spite of knowing the pain it would cause the rest of us. Concession accepted.

The Apoligist wrote:Almost everything.

Really? I thought that was humans. Tell me, did God bring down the WTC? We really want to know.

The Apoligist wrote:Do we deserve anything from God?

Yes. We deserve the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Does God give us those rights? According to the bible, no. God has revoked our right to life based on an offense that we (as distinguished from our ancestors) did not commit. God has removed our liberty by demanding that we obey his every word or we shall be cast into a bottomless pit of flames for all eternity. God has revoked our right to the persuit of happiness by insisting that we worship him continually and do everything for HIS sake, not our own. And even after people break their backs working for him, He still doesn't show the slightest sign of respect, let alone allowing us our inalienable rights.

The Apoligist wrote:Um.

No.

What, can't think of an answer? Concession accepted.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 04:22pm

Andrew J. wrote:
data_link wrote: Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?
It's a test of blind faith. Hundreds of years ago, if people made fun of the hat, they were burned. If they ignored it, they were true Christians.

ROTFLMAO!

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2002-11-29 04:26pm

data_link wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:
data_link wrote: Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?
It's a test of blind faith. Hundreds of years ago, if people made fun of the hat, they were burned. If they ignored it, they were true Christians.
ROTFLMAO!

What the fuck? Someone actually thought one of my jokes was funny? I must be losing my bad taste...

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2002-11-29 04:29pm

data_link wrote: Tell me, did God bring down the WTC? We really want to know.

Well, technically, He installed gravity in the universe, did He not?

The Apologist · Post by **The Apologist** » 2002-11-29 04:38pm

No, "Apology" primarily means "A statement of acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense." Suggest you purchase a dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apology

My dictionary lists "a formal justification" as the primary definition. Above, it is 2a.

In any case, the terms "apologetics" and thus "apologist" are derived from "apologia," closely related to "apology."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologia

So you admit that God created the world for himself and his own selfish desires, in spite of knowing the pain it would cause the rest of us. Concession accepted.

Hardly a concession. Pain is for our (or perhaps my) ultimate good.

Really? I thought that was humans. Tell me, did God bring down the WTC? We really want to know.

He made it possible; I know that for sure.

To be exact, since the beginning, God has "done" everything which was not "done" by another being's free will.

We deserve the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

How about that "supporting your statements" rule, huh?

Why do you believe we deserve such rights?

What, can't think of an answer? Concession accepted.

Yes, I concede. It is difficult to think of an answer when there was no thinking behind the question.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 05:03pm

The Apoligist wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apology

My dictionary lists "a formal justification" as the primary definition. Above, it is 2a.

In any case, the terms "apologetics" and thus "apologist" are derived from "apologia," closely related to "apology."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologia

A) My definition comes first.
B) Under your usage of the word, it is also defined as "An explanation or excuse" (emphasis mine). So my original point still stands - if what you are doing is right, then why do you need to make excuses? Do you ever hear of people trying to "justify" a moral action?

The Apoligist wrote:Hardly a concession. Pain is for our (or perhaps my) ultimate good.

And tell me, what ultimate good does eternal torture (hell) serve? How do you know that all pain serves an ultimate good? Can you honestly suggest that being beaten half to death by intolerant fundies (which God allows to happen by not clarifying any of the statemets in the bible or removing the parts where people are encouraged to smite all unbelievers, read the old testament for reference) is ultimately a good thing?

The Apoligist wrote:He made it possible; I know that for sure.

To be exact, since the beginning, God has "done" everything which was not "done" by another being's free will.

So you admit that everyone ever killed in a natural disaster, was personally killed by God. Wow. He's even more of a genocidal maniac than the Bible says he is.

The Apoligist wrote:How about that "supporting your statements" rule, huh?

Why do you believe we deserve such rights?

Okay, it's not self evident to you? The fact that it is explicity stated in the Constitution of the United States isn't enough for you? Okay... let's consider not having them. We would be dead, opressed, and constantly miserable. It is reasonable to have the punishment for any crime be proportional to the damage caused by it (Eye for an eye, stated in the bible). Therefore, everyone who has not caused another person to be killed deserves life, everyone who has not enslaved another person deserves liberty, and everyone who has not denied another the chance to persue happiness does not deserve to have that taken away from them. In other words, the only person who does not deserve these inalienable rights is God Himself!

The Apoligist wrote:Yes, I concede. It is difficult to think of an answer when there was no thinking behind the question.

Red herring, and strawman. The questions were both logically valid.

Gricksigger · Post by **Gricksigger** » 2002-11-29 05:04pm

If Christianity is moral, then why do people need to apoligize for being Christians?

I don't apoligize. I do apologize, however. As explained above, this consists of (according to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition) "A formal justification or defense."

Why does the pope wear such a rediculous hat?

I am not Catholic. I am Protestant. Read about the Reformation and the general Protestant attitude about Catholicism.

Why does God need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a law he made himself?

He did not make morality. He did not invent morality. His unchanging, permanent nature is moral; that is, morally good. He didn't need to sacrifice himself, either. He simply did it out of love. He has no obligation to give or even offer us eternal life or salvation at all. But more to the point, God is just, and so it was necessary for someone to bear divine punishment on the behalf of humanity's sins. God offered his own son, out of love, to carry out this task.

Okay, so God created the universe, but what has he done since then?

Yeah. God just created this universe and life and people with souls and has made it so that is sustained only by him. What the heck has he done since then? Especially since it's so easy to make something like the universe out of nothing . [/sarcastic] What has he done since then, indeed.

Why do Christians work so hard for someone that never shows them any respect?

Respect? First off, why should we get any respect? It is God alone who allows faith in him. Furthermore, Christians are not (or should not be) Christians to avoid Hell or to get into Heaven. Christianity is not fire insurance. Rather, Christians should have faith and live for God simply because it is the morally right thing to do, and what we were designed and made for.

Why does God think it more important to build churches than to help starving kids in Africa?

He doesn't. But fellowship is very important, as well as evangelism and helping the poor.

If no one can find God without faith, then what happens when God loses faith in himself?

How could God lose faith in himself? That is impossible. God has no sin (actually, he cannot sin) because to do so would be against his nature. Furthermore, he is omniscient and omnipotent. Therefore, he can see everything clearly as it is. Therefore, he clearly sees himself as he is: perfect, morally good, omniscient, omnipotent, etc.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2002-11-29 05:16pm

I am not Catholic. I am Protestant. Read about the Reformation and the general Protestant attitude about Catholicism

Furthermore, Christians are not (or should not be) Christians to avoid Hell or to get into Heaven.

Ooh ooh, I have a question:

Why can no two Christians EVER agree on what constitutes Christianity?

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-29 05:20pm

Ooh ooh, I have a question:

Why can no two Christians EVER agree on what constitutes Christianity?

Because there is so much interpretation put in the Bible, there is bound to be a massive amount of differences.

Moreover, I've never heard of two people who ever fully agree on everything.

However, one can derive simple things like the fact that the reward/punishment motive is not a good reason to believe in Christ. That would be selfish-ambition.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2002-11-29 05:25pm

Hi, CATW.
But, so many people refuse to accept that there is any interpretation needed for the Bible, because everything it says must be true.

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-29 05:26pm

Everything it says is true, but what it means is still subject to interpretation, naturally.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-29 05:31pm

Oh goody, goody. Another fundie has finally had the courage to cone to us. I hope we don't break your skull while pounding some sense into your head.

Gricksigger wrote:I don't apoligize. I do apologize, however. As explained above, this consists of (according to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition) "A formal justification or defense."

That's nice. Do you feel like you are on trial for being a Christian? No one is persecuting you, or saying that you aren't allowed to be citizens of the United States. No one is telling you that you should be an atheist and repent of your sin of being a Christian. So, if you feel like you are on trial, wouldn't that be your conscience telling you that you are doing something wrong?

Gricksigger wrote:I am not Catholic. I am Protestant. Read about the Reformation and the general Protestant attitude about Catholicism.

You still haven't answered my question.

Gricksigger wrote:He did not make morality. He did not invent morality. His unchanging, permanent nature is moral; that is, morally good. He didn't need to sacrifice himself, either. He simply did it out of love. He has no obligation to give or even offer us eternal life or salvation at all. But more to the point, God is just, and so it was necessary for someone to bear divine punishment on the behalf of humanity's sins. God offered his own son, out of love, to carry out this task.

Love? Excuse me, but I would hardly call someone who sends his own son out to die "loving." I would hardly call someone who violates every single commandment He has put forth moral. I would hardly kall someone who kill off the whole fucking human race moral. And what is this about God not changing his nature? If God was perfectly good, or unable to change his nature, then how the fuck could he repent of his actions? Why does he sometimes need to ask the advice of humans? Further, since you admit that God is not the source of morality, and you contend that God has free will, then you admit that God is able to perform immoral acts and even skimming the bible will reveal hundreds of them.

Gricksigger wrote:Yeah. God just created this universe and life and people with souls and has made it so that is sustained only by him. What the heck has he done since then? Especially since it's so easy to make something like the universe out of nothing . </sarcastic> What has he done since then, indeed.

This is known as not answering the fucking question. And since you cant answer it, I'll tell you - he has been commiting atrocious acts of mass murder, demanding animal and human sacrifices, filling the world with sin, supressing knoledge, torturing innocent people, and then after all that, he demands that you worship him or end up burning in hell for all eternity. Some God you have.

A dickwad wrote:Respect? First off, why should we get any respect? It is God alone who allows faith in him. Furthermore, Christians are not (or should not be) Christians to avoid Hell or to get into Heaven. Christianity is not fire insurance. Rather, Christians should have faith and live for God simply because it is the morally right thing to do, and what we were designed and made for.

Morally correct? You call worshipping a mass murderer morally correct?! WTF?!

Gricksigger wrote:He doesn't. But fellowship is very important, as well as evangelism and helping the poor.

Why is fellowship important? Is it really more important to God that you worship him than that you help the poor? Oh wait, it is - see the commandments and how "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" is first on that list.

A dipshit wrote:How could God lose faith in himself? That is impossible. God has no sin (actually, he cannot sin) because to do so would be against his nature. Furthermore, he is omniscient and omnipotent. Therefore, he can see everything clearly as it is. Therefore, he clearly sees himself as he is: perfect, morally good, omniscient, omnipotent, etc.

Really? I've got news for you - your God has been hitting the 'shrooms pretty hard lately. And you are an enabling codependant.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-29 05:32pm

creationistalltheay wrote:
Ooh ooh, I have a question:

Why can no two Christians EVER agree on what constitutes Christianity?
Because there is so much interpretation put in the Bible, there is bound to be a massive amount of differences.

Moreover, I've never heard of two people who ever fully agree on everything.

Throws the whole literal Bible notion out the window then.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-29 05:34pm

creationistalltheay wrote:Everything it says is true, but what it means is still subject to interpretation, naturally.

That doesn't work. Especially considering the contradictions. Oh and how do you interpret pi to equal 3 in the Bible but not in reality?

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-29 05:35pm

That doesn't work. Especially considering the contradictions. Oh and how do you interpret pi to equal 3 in the Bible but not in reality?

Thats for a different thread, but I"d like to be shown where in the Bible it claims pi equals 3 (I believe I know what you are reffering to)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Christian questions

Christian questions

Re: Christian questions

Re: Christian questions

Re: Christian questions

Re: Christian questions

Re: Christian questions