Refuting Aliens

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Everywhere I go, there are people who believe in aliens, whether they've been watching too much of the X-Files, or they believe the stuff in Weekly World News. They are quite clever. Whenever I ask why they would travel so far for no apparent reason, they say "because they can". Half the time, they bring up "aliens in Area 51", or nonsense like that.

Does anyone have advice for refuting myths of alien landings, and the like?

Also, does anyone think there are people out there that think aliens can travel hundreds, if not thousands of lightyears, but don't belive that we can travel 250,000 miles to the moon?

[TrailerParkJawa]

Also, does anyone think there are people out there that think aliens can travel hundreds, if not thousands of lightyears, but don't belive that we can travel 250,000 miles to the moon?

I would hazard a guess that the folks who believe the moon landing was faked do not believe in aliens.

One thing that always bugs me is when people put forth the idea that we could not have built things like the pyramids without alien help. So who helped the aliens develop the technology to get here???

[neoolong]

Also, does anyone think there are people out there that think aliens can travel hundreds, if not thousands of lightyears, but don't belive that we can travel 250,000 miles to the moon?

I would hazard a guess that the folks who believe the moon landing was faked do not believe in aliens.

One thing that always bugs me is when people put forth the idea that we could not have built things like the pyramids without alien help. So who helped the aliens develop the technology to get here???

More aliens of course. Duh.


There really is no way to refute alien landings if they keep bringing up that it was all a big government conspiracy. Anything you say will just be part of the conspiracy.

[Wicked Pilot]

Just make fun of them. It won't change anything of course, but at least you'll enjoy it.

[Stravo]

I believe in life out there, I just don't believe that they've come here. However the universe will be a sad and lonely place if we can never go faster than the speed of light and basically remain clustered around our home systems, never really able to branch out very far because of the vast gulf of distances involved and considering what has happened when humanity meets another group less advanced than themselves, maybe it's for the best.

[Zoink]

There exists the possibility that if life could have arisen on Earth, it could have on other planets, but there is no evidence that aliens have visited earth. There is no evidence for the existence of aliens.

Ask them to provide actual proof, noting that:

Unexplained phenomenon doesn't prove that aliens exist anymore than it proves pink-fuzzy-fairies exist.

Unconfirmed reports by anally-probed people, whom are completely unable to provide actual evidence is not proof. Providing a room full of anally-probed people, none of whom can provide actual proof, is not proof. There are more undiagnosed schizophrenics in the world than there are anally probed “witnesses.” Without actual proof there is no way to corroborate their testimony.

When watching those “unsolved mysteries” television shows, watch critically. Listen to what they are actually saying, and what evidence they are providing. The “evidence” is entirely made from unconfirmable testimony, and the implication that unexplainable phenomena could be aliens (and if you do this while playing spooky music and showing alien sketches... all the better).

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Also, does anyone think there are people out there that think aliens can travel hundreds, if not thousands of lightyears, but don't belive that we can travel 250,000 miles to the moon?

I would hazard a guess that the folks who believe the moon landing was faked do not believe in aliens.

One thing that always bugs me is when people put forth the idea that we could not have built things like the pyramids without alien help. So who helped the aliens develop the technology to get here???

The pyramids are glorified rock piles. If super-advanced aliens built them, then they would probably posess materials string enough to make the pyramid shape, and the lack of open spaces unecessary. The Egyptians just got a lot of people to build a pyramid shape, so materials could be hauled up with the help of ramps. Of course, I never met someone dumb enough to think that aliens helped build the pyramids.

[DocHorror]

Its not dumb to believe that aliens helped build the pyramids...

I don't believe it myself, I like to give mankind the benefit of the doubt...

The original pyramids, complete with limestone cladding, would have been a remarkable sight. The people who orignially biult them must have had some knowledge that we now lack...

[ArmorPierce]

Also, does anyone think there are people out there that think aliens can travel hundreds, if not thousands of lightyears, but don't belive that we can travel 250,000 miles to the moon?

I would hazard a guess that the folks who believe the moon landing was faked do not believe in aliens.

I think that a lot of those people actually do believe that aliens has visited Earth just because they believe in anything that has to do witht there being a conspiracy.

[pecker]

I'm not saying I beleive in aliens visiting Earth. But I also don't buy the 'mass hallucination' bit we keep getting. Something is going on that we can't explain, and aliens is just as good an explanation as any for some people. In my opinion, it would be more foolish write it off as nothing at all.

There is evidence that people have been seeing strange lights and strange beings all throughout history. If these are natural phenomenon and hallucinations, or alien creatures, is another matter. But something is occuring. The fact that there are well documented reports that lack a mundane answer just reinforces the issue.

[Colonel Olrik]

I'm not saying I beleive in aliens visiting Earth. But I also don't buy the 'mass hallucination' bit we keep getting. Something is going on that we can't explain, and aliens is just as good an explanation as any for some people. In my opinion, it would be more foolish write it off as nothing at all.

People minds are easily tricked. People also lie a lot. I've never seen any report which does not have a natural explanation

There is evidence that people have been seeing strange lights and strange beings all throughout history.

Yes. In the past, they saw angels and demons. Now they see aliens. Signs of the culture? The fact is, delusions do happen, and people believe in them. The hunting for witches is a prime example.

If these are natural phenomenon and hallucinations, or alien creatures, is another matter. But something is occuring. The fact that there are well documented reports that lack a mundane answer just reinforces the issue.

I've never seen one. In fact, would it be all that hard to have a picture/film well taken, in the middle of the million ghost appearances the UFOlogists try to convince us with?

[NecronLord]

No there is abosoloutely no necron influence on the pryamids

honest

That said the only knowlage the egyptians had that we lack is what the fuck the half star over a moon hieoglyph actually means!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Just say "Do you also believe in invisible pink unicorns?"

[pecker]

Just say "Do you also believe in invisible pink unicorns?"

Ah, but they have no reason to beleive in such things. Some people have experienced things that make them beleive in aliens.

And in responce to Olrik:

I have done a little research into UFOs and aliens in my free time (By research, I mean reading). There are a number of high-profile cases where no antural explanation fits the bill unless you make several dangerious, and cocassionally silly, assumptions. Keep in mind, NONE of these cases are even close to proof of aliens. However, many of them are strange enough that they cannot be dismissed by any 'normal' phenomenon. They may be geo-lights or something of that nature. But whatever they are, the current explanations are not satisfactory.

[Colonel Olrik]

Ah, but they have no reason to beleive in such things. Some people have experienced things that make them beleive in aliens.

Again, people are easily fooled. By themselves, or by others. The amount of tarot readers in the world is an example

I have done a little research into UFOs and aliens in my free time (By research, I mean reading). There are a number of high-profile cases where no antural explanation fits the bill unless you make several dangerious, and cocassionally silly, assumptions.

Name some examples. I'm sure there are articles which explain them. They just tend to be ignored. Again, they could never produce a single photo of good quality, for example, or a piece of hard evidence. In thousands of "appearances".

Keep in mind, NONE of these cases are even close to proof of aliens. However, many of them are strange enough that they cannot be dismissed by any 'normal' phenomenon. They may be geo-lights or something of that nature. But whatever they are, the current explanations are not satisfactory.

A explanation not being satisfactory does not mean we should accept a jump to the least likely, most extraordinary, theory.

There is simply no evidence in support of alien visits which outlasts a good skeptical exam.

[pecker]

I didn't say we should accept aliens. What I said we should do is to accept that we simply don't have a satisfactory explanation in some instances.

I don't have any articles on me, and I don't want to misquote or confuse stories, so I'm not going to go into anything right now.

I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to believe there are space aliens abducting people. However, there IS sufficient evidence to believe something more than swamp gas and bad dreams. Even if it's just a sort of psychological phenomenon, it is one that has yet to be specifically identified, and warrants continued study.

Yes, people have always reported angels and demons. However, the reports of UFOs and odd creatures are oddly consistent from age to age. The abduction theme seemd to be universal. If it is a part of the human psyche, then it has been grossly neglected by science. It does warrant further study, as these people are scared to death and truly believe what happened. They are alienated (no pun intended) by people such as yourselves who ridicule them. They live in fear of tellign others, so they have great internal turmoil. They get no solace from doctors who simply tell them it was a dream, with no explanation as to why theirs seem to real, consistent, and occasionally leave physical wounds behind. Whatever is happening to these people, not enough has been done to study it.

[Colonel Olrik]

I didn't say we should accept aliens. What I said we should do is to accept that we simply don't have a satisfactory explanation in some instances.

True. But in that case, the most extrordinary theory comes last, not first.
This summer, I and others saw a big reddish glow in fire in the sky, at night. I took it for an asteroid, or a piece of debrie. It could have been an alien craft. Some people would surely hold photos of it as evidence..

I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to believe there are space aliens abducting people. However, there IS sufficient evidence to believe something more than swamp gas and bad dreams. Even if it's just a sort of psychological phenomenon, it is one that has yet to be specifically identified, and warrants continued study.

There is a great variety of identified mental illnesses, you know.. And you can self induce allucinations, simply be getting stoned or drunk.

And some people just like to lie and invent. To gain attention and money. There are plenty of hoaxes around. And the sad thing is, many people believe in them even after their exposal. For example, the marks in the corn fields (And, with the new Signs movie, I'm betting they'll reappear..)

Yes, people have always reported angels and demons. However, the reports of UFOs and odd creatures are oddly consistent from age to age.

Yes, and they're always humanoid looking, and distorted. Like giant fetus, for example. That should ring an alarm bell.

The abduction theme seemd to be universal. If it is a part of the human psyche, then it has been grossly neglected by science.

Really, it has been explained. Some fears are just universal, part of our simian phsyque. The fear of the night, the fear/desire of the unknown, etc.

It does warrant further study, as these people are scared to death and truly believe what happened. They are alienated (no pun intended) by people such as yourselves who ridicule them.

I do not ridicule them. I simply do not believe them at face value. If I say to you there is a pink unicorn, you won't believe. But you would if presented with good quality video footage (LucasArts excluded).

They lvie in fear of tellign others, so they have great internal turmoil. They get to solace from doctors who simply tell them it was a dream, with no explanation as to why theirs seem to real, consistent, and occasionally leave physical wounds behind. Whatever is happening to these people, not enough has been done to study it.

Some are mentally sick, others are praying for attention. Not one has provided solid evidence. For example, an alien artifact picked in the ship..

[pecker]

Fair enough.

[Warspite]

Well, over 85% of all events can't be explained, yet, but that what's science for isn't it?

The problem is that the media have a great influence in this phenomenom, I remember seeing a documentary about this subject, where it was mentioned that UFO's with shinny lights started to be sighted more frequently after Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the corn marks (Cerealogy? WTF?), the continuing myth of the "gray" alien...
And people want to believe in something greater then them, this is just religion turned into urban myth.

[pecker]

Well, over 85% of all events can't be explained, yet, but that what's science for isn't it?

The problem is that the media have a great influence in this phenomenom, I remember seeing a documentary about this subject, where it was mentioned that UFO's with shinny lights started to be sighted more frequently after Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the corn marks (Cerealogy? WTF?), the continuing myth of the "gray" alien...
And people want to believe in something greater then them, this is just religion turned into urban myth.

In 99% of cases, yes. However, there are secondary forms of physical evidence (radiation poisoning, burns on the grounds, magnetic fields) that cannot be explained. While these are not proof of flying saucers, have no ready explanation.

[Colonel Olrik]

In 99% of cases, yes. However, there are secondary forms of physical evidence (radiation poisoning, burns on the grounds, magnetic fields) that cannot be explained. While these are not proof of flying saucers, have no ready explanation.

If you say 99% of the cases have a natural explanation, what's keeping you from saying 100%? if we go for that reasoning, I do not have 100% certainty of nothing. There maybe a 0.00001% chances of you being a figment of my imagination (if solipsists are right). I just round it down to 0.

Again, I have never heard of radiation poisoning, or burns (both very easily self inducted) which cannot be explained without resorting to UFO's

If you have heard of them, do a little research about possible explanation, or ask yourself if there is no other reasonable theory than the alien's one.
Remember occam's razor.

[pecker]

In 99% of cases, yes. However, there are secondary forms of physical evidence (radiation poisoning, burns on the grounds, magnetic fields) that cannot be explained. While these are not proof of flying saucers, have no ready explanation.

If you say 99% of the cases have a natural explanation, what's keeping you from saying 100%? if we go for that reasoning, I do not have 100% certainty of nothing. There maybe a 0.00001& chances of you being a figment of my imagination (if solipsists are right). I just round it up to 0.

Again, I have never heard of radiation poisoning, or burns (both very easily self inducted) which cannot be explained without resorting to UFO's

If you have heard of them, do a little research about possible explanation, or ask yourself if there is no other reasonable theory than the alien's one.
Remember occam's razor.

The burns are actually burns left in the ground, and there are reports of people suffering form radiation-type illnesses. And I have not heard of explanations of how people driving down the road can suffer radiation poisoning. I seriously doubt they are alien spaceships, buit I would like to know what it is.

[Warspite]

Well, yes it's understandable, there are still many questions to be answered by science, but that's the fun part of it all, there are still something left to discover, to know why. (Refer to the spaceward plasma streams in lightning storms... Only recently (80-90's?) have they been taken seriously by the scientific community, after being sighted numerous times by high-flying pilots in the past decades (from the 50's onward).)

The problem happens when people disregard simple explanations because they don't like it, or find it too simple, generating a chain reaction of opinions that (eventually) will stomp the simple, and possibly accurate, explanation.

[Colonel Olrik]

The burns are actually burns left in the ground,

Too easy too forge. People imitating the cornfield artists idiots is the more probable assumption. Or a weirdo lightning fire, something. If you have a thousand natural ocurrences, then it's reazonable to expect some of them to be of human/alien design. Specially, because we're genetically programed to recognize designs where there are any (just look at clouds)

and there are reports of people suffering form radiation-type illnesses. And I have not heard of explanations of how people driving down the road can suffer radiation poisoning.

There are many sources of natural/man made radiation. It's a very unlikely event, but then, only the people who actually get sick make the news. Some people get hit by lightning too. Many supernatural phenomena originates from a poor grasp of probability theory.

I seriously doubt they are alien spaceships, buit I would like to know what it is.

That's the right attitude. Reserve the least probable explanation for last.

[kojikun]

Pyramids: The Hoover Dam contains something like 20 times the amount of material that the great pyramids do (or something like that). The Hoover Dam isnt even the biggest dam on earth, the Three Gorges Dam is like.. HUGE. The truth is, the pyramids are easy. Whats more, the egyptians could have used various acids which liquify limestone, which would then harden. Theres evidence that the blocks of the great pyramids are exactly like this (shells and fossils having been broken into SMALL pieces). This would make the construction of the pyramid considerably easier, because the material could be pumped up using archimedes screws and shadufs instead of lifting thousands of pounds at a time.

Radiation: I can take a microoven and a but of iron filings and gun powder and recreate a "genuine" crop circle (with burned extrusions in the corn, mild background radiation, electronic interference, aircraft fuckuppage, and small steel spherules in the soil). I know this because they did it on I believe it was TLC or one of the Discovery Networks TV stations. The whole show was devoted to recreating crop circles in a way that they would be believable, right down to the funky shit. And I would note that this was the groups first try (the MIT crop circle group did the circle). Given many years of experience, I think that the near perfect results could be improved into exact replicas. I could also give you radiation burns from the microwave. Its interesting to note that during prelim tests with the microwave, there was a leak in the waveguide and the videocamera went nuts, and when the survey helicopter flew over the circle, residual microwave interference was strong enough to fuck with the copters controls and actually kill the engine for a few seconds.