Plasteel!

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-08-27 09:31am

3 times the tensile strength of aluminum, but 2.6 times less mass

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 ... ?list58998

Too bad it still needs work on the temperature bit, but iff they get that beaten I can see a ton of applications for this stuff even beyond spaceships

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2005-08-27 04:46pm

Sounds promising, but there's not enough info to go by. Doesn't say what aluminum alloy they're comparing it to and it doesn't list the other material properties either. For all we know it could be incredibly brittle or it might be about as stiff as jello. I'll wait till they release the rest of the info before making any guesses as to how useful it may be.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-08-27 05:12pm

This could end up to be a promising venture that has little application, like that transparisteel we had a while back which was a special form of aluminium exhibiting properties of glass.

Aluminium is a good enough material for saving weight as it is, the mining and processing of it like with titanium is what makes it costly, so I don't expect even more refined versions like this to be cheap either.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2005-08-27 05:17pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:This could end up to be a promising venture that has little application, like that transparisteel we had a while back which was a special form of aluminium exhibiting properties of glass.

Aluminium is a good enough material for saving weight as it is, the mining and processing of it like with titanium is what makes it costly, so I don't expect even more refined versions like this to be cheap either.

Wait, back up the truck mack, they were working on transparent aluminium?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-08-27 05:48pm

Yes, they were.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-08-27 06:08pm

And, Frank Herbert guffaws from the afterlife.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-08-27 06:36pm

There's also a form of transparent concrete which is now available--well, semi-transparent. It's best use would probably be to replace windows at places like embassies which are likely targets of a terrorist attack.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-08-27 08:24pm

How does one make transparent concrete?

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2005-08-27 08:38pm

Ford Prefect wrote:How does one make transparent concrete?

Don't give it any character.

I kinda figured something like this was coming soon. Advances in matierial science leads to nifty things. I hope we find some use for this.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-08-27 09:14pm

darthdavid wrote:Wait, back up the truck mack, they were working on transparent aluminium?

Seeing as how we've known its chemical composition since 1986, I'd say it's about time.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2005-08-27 09:25pm

Ford Prefect wrote:How does one make transparent concrete?

Run fibreoptics through it in the direction you want it to be transparent in. Well trasnparent isn't the right word. More like "slightly less than opaque".

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-08-28 01:00am

How does one make transparent concrete?

Use glass fibers in the mixture.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-08-28 02:22am

It sounds like it's some kind of reinforced polyethylene. In any case, the idea that it would be better for cosmic ray protection is interesting, but I wonder if they've thought this through. Plastic absorbs radiation quite well but in the process, the polymers break down and the material is embrittled. Not good for a spaceship hull.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2005-08-28 02:51am

Darth Wong wrote:It sounds like it's some kind of reinforced polyethylene. In any case, the idea that it would be better for cosmic ray protection is interesting, but I wonder if they've thought this through. Plastic absorbs radiation quite well but in the process, the polymers break down and the material is embrittled. Not good for a spaceship hull.

It would probably be used as part of a composite hull. The plastic on the outside, plus an inner metallic hull.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2005-08-28 08:46am

At the risk of sounding like an utter goober, don't high end watches and enormously expensive cellular phones already employ transparent aluminum (at least after a fashion)? Sapphire glass is, if I'm remembering it correctly, a manufactured aluminum oxide, transparent like glass (and UV-transparent, too), and also extremely hard and durable. Of course, picture windows are out of the question since 10-15cm radii are apparently the maximum possible with modern techniques.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-08-28 06:38pm

It sounds like it's some kind of reinforced polyethylene. In any case, the idea that it would be better for cosmic ray protection is interesting, but I wonder if they've thought this through. Plastic absorbs radiation quite well but in the process, the polymers break down and the material is embrittled. Not good for a spaceship hull.

You can crosslink and do a number of tricks to delay embrittlement (like adding carbon black). Polyethylene is also repairable, though normally that is more expensive than just recasting the part you need. I'd have to see the actual chemistry but I think NASA either has or will eventually look into this.

This stuff may even be have some of those whacky functionalities that allow to crosslink more and become stronger with radiation exposure for a time.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-08-28 06:49pm

Beowulf wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It sounds like it's some kind of reinforced polyethylene. In any case, the idea that it would be better for cosmic ray protection is interesting, but I wonder if they've thought this through. Plastic absorbs radiation quite well but in the process, the polymers break down and the material is embrittled. Not good for a spaceship hull.
It would probably be used as part of a composite hull. The plastic on the outside, plus an inner metallic hull.

Opposite. Metal outside, plastic inside probably, more efficient that way.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-08-29 12:01am

Can't we just wait for the 2 meter thick titanium hulls?

The next step, I would think would be if we could mass produce metallic hydrogen, that would probably be the best shield you're going to get against cosmic rays, short of actual deflector shields. The problem I see with metallic hydrogen is that if it corrodes, it could be a rather interesting sight (I know it probably would go very fast, because hydrogen has a high electronegativity, but oxygen has an even higher one...)

But until the wishful thinking becomes practical, if it is even possible, we're stuck with what we do have. If we're to reach for the stars at all, we'll just have to make do.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-08-29 12:02am

goddammit...
hydrogen would probably NOT corrode too quickly, because of its high electronegativity

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-08-29 04:24am

Patrick Ogaard wrote:At the risk of sounding like an utter goober, don't high end watches and enormously expensive cellular phones already employ transparent aluminum (at least after a fashion)? Sapphire glass is, if I'm remembering it correctly, a manufactured aluminum oxide, transparent like glass (and UV-transparent, too), and also extremely hard and durable. Of course, picture windows are out of the question since 10-15cm radii are apparently the maximum possible with modern techniques.

Yes, that's exactly what the 'transparent aluminium' stuff was about. It wasn't transparent aluminium, it was transparent alumina. Just tough transparent AlO2 crystal, not some magically treated metal. A lot of less scientific scifi boards are still getting boners over that, usually mentioned alongside 't3h US i5 m4k1ng f0rc3f13lds f0r t4nks, Tr3k is h4rd 5c13nce'.

Unless, of course, there's been a different aluminium breakthrough and i'm making a complete jackass out of myself.

"Since it's a fabric, it can be draped around molds and shaped into specific spacecraft components."

Fabric?