How, and when, did you finally realize that fundamentalist Christianity is bunch of shit? I think for me, it was sort of a long process but one thing that stands out in my mind was talking about Star Trek with another church member. I think we were talking about the one where Troi gets pregnant by an alien and all the other church person would say is, "I don't watch it anymore because she got pregnant by demons." I think that moment sort of flipped the switch in my mind how ridiculous some of the fundie crap really is.
Also, I read "The Truth About Uri Geller" by James Randi. That helped me to get away from the idea of Hell.
For us who were raised among the fundies...
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
I was (am being) raised by semi-fundies -- more pretty conservative, but not in-your-face -- Catholics. It's close enough I can comment.
There wasn't really an "aha" moment; rather, I gradually realized some things I believed were incompatible with other things I believed. The closest thing to an "aha" actually came after reading Darth Wong's "Morality comes from humans, not God!" essay on his creationism site; I read it, saw the atrocious nature of God's behavior, and went: "Oh. That's a good point." Afterwards, I modified my beliefs to never conflict with observed reality and sliced out moral contradictions within my faith system.
There wasn't really an "aha" moment; rather, I gradually realized some things I believed were incompatible with other things I believed. The closest thing to an "aha" actually came after reading Darth Wong's "Morality comes from humans, not God!" essay on his creationism site; I read it, saw the atrocious nature of God's behavior, and went: "Oh. That's a good point." Afterwards, I modified my beliefs to never conflict with observed reality and sliced out moral contradictions within my faith system.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Zero
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When I was 3. I was standing on the stairs, and I had a pretty big revelation for a three year old. I already had a pretty big suspicion that all this talk of heaven and hell was crap, and I said "Mommy, what if the world has always been here, and God is just something some wierd people made up?"
She looked at me with the greatest of contempt, and told me to never think such things again. I knew that it was crap, being as she didn't answer me, just scolded me. I didn't voice any of my doubts until quite recently... she didn't know I was an atheist until about a year ago.
She looked at me with the greatest of contempt, and told me to never think such things again. I knew that it was crap, being as she didn't answer me, just scolded me. I didn't voice any of my doubts until quite recently... she didn't know I was an atheist until about a year ago.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
I was in junior high, a huge fan of Narnia, and one of Aslan's lines from "The Last Battle" was caught in my head. I don't have the book handy for the exact quote, but it broke down into those who do good in the name of their god Aslan rewarded, all that do evil in his name are punished by the evil god.
So, I started wondering why the God my American Baptist church had taught me about would punish the Buddists, the Muslims, and all the other non-Christian folk who do Good Deeds in the name of their belief, just because they didn't follow Christ. I took the question to my pastor, who was a fire-n-brimstone ye-must-be-washed-in-the-blood conservative 70yr old who'd been preaching most of his life.
I'm sure you can guess the answer. He left out the Bible-thumping, since he wasn't up in front of the podium, but I was told "Ye MUST be Born Again, or Be CAST into-the-Lake-o-Fire!" (hopefully that caught the emphasis/accent)
From that point on, I lost interest in going to church, because I didn't want to follow a God who'd punish good people just because they never heard of Christ or didn't follow the Christian faith. It took many years before I found my own truth: every god ever worshipped is but a shadow of the One Truth. We mortals can't see It well enough to comprehend, so we take what little shards we see and build our religions around It.
In short: There is no One True Way, only shadows of the One Truth.
So, I started wondering why the God my American Baptist church had taught me about would punish the Buddists, the Muslims, and all the other non-Christian folk who do Good Deeds in the name of their belief, just because they didn't follow Christ. I took the question to my pastor, who was a fire-n-brimstone ye-must-be-washed-in-the-blood conservative 70yr old who'd been preaching most of his life.
I'm sure you can guess the answer. He left out the Bible-thumping, since he wasn't up in front of the podium, but I was told "Ye MUST be Born Again, or Be CAST into-the-Lake-o-Fire!" (hopefully that caught the emphasis/accent)
From that point on, I lost interest in going to church, because I didn't want to follow a God who'd punish good people just because they never heard of Christ or didn't follow the Christian faith. It took many years before I found my own truth: every god ever worshipped is but a shadow of the One Truth. We mortals can't see It well enough to comprehend, so we take what little shards we see and build our religions around It.
In short: There is no One True Way, only shadows of the One Truth.
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
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Shroom Man 777
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My experience is similar to LT, though I didn't read Narnia or anything.
Oh, and my school was a pseudo-fundie place. One time, the yearbook had an article that ranted about how satanic Pokemon was. And at one point, they circulated a paper written by a guy who claimed he was an actual factual witch with actual factual powers (flight, superstrength, x-ray vision, ice breath... nah, just flight... and some other witchy stuff) and that Harry Potter was evil or some shit.
And then there was that lecturer who ranted that prior to Adam and Eve's gobbling the apple, T-rex coexisted along with people fairly well, and was not a predator. And had soft teeth. And was a scavenger.
Oh, and my school was a pseudo-fundie place. One time, the yearbook had an article that ranted about how satanic Pokemon was. And at one point, they circulated a paper written by a guy who claimed he was an actual factual witch with actual factual powers (flight, superstrength, x-ray vision, ice breath... nah, just flight... and some other witchy stuff) and that Harry Potter was evil or some shit.
And then there was that lecturer who ranted that prior to Adam and Eve's gobbling the apple, T-rex coexisted along with people fairly well, and was not a predator. And had soft teeth. And was a scavenger.
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The best way to lie is to wrap it in a truth. T-Rex may well have been a scavenger as much as it was a hunter.Shroom Man 777 wrote:And then there was that lecturer who ranted that prior to Adam and Eve's gobbling the apple, T-rex coexisted along with people fairly well, and was not a predator. And had soft teeth. And was a scavenger.
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Guardsman Bass
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It was a 'punctuated de-conversion' : long periods of slowly declining belief, with sudden bursts of skepticism leading to the loss of another part of religious belief.
I'm not sure when I completely abandoned the fundamentalist position. I do remember, when I was 10, seeing a timeline with Adam and Eve dated at 4004 B.C., and saying, "right.
" (sarcasm included). Like Zero, I got a bad look, and a "Don't scoff at the Scriptures."
I'm not sure when I completely abandoned the fundamentalist position. I do remember, when I was 10, seeing a timeline with Adam and Eve dated at 4004 B.C., and saying, "right.
" (sarcasm included). Like Zero, I got a bad look, and a "Don't scoff at the Scriptures."“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
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"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
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I never was fundamentalist-minded in Christian beliefs because although my grandmother is an ardent Christian (and I suspect fundamentalist) my mother was and remains an atheist and didn't force me to go to Church which believe me, would have caused unending resentment and probably just hastened my de-conversion.
The only time I ever really believed in Christianity (having been sort of Christian-by-default-for-belief-in-god or agnostic or merely ignorant most of my childhood) was in my teen years which were, well, rough emotionally cause of all the raging-hormones and unending stress related to school. Even then, it was only cause my best friend was a Church goer and invited me to go one time. Seperated from the raging-hormones period of life though it's too easy to see the writing on the wall.
Still, the point at which I saw the lunacy of fundamentalist beliefs (if not my own) was in Basic Training, where the resident fundamentalist voiced his regret that, although I lived a far more Christian life than a lot of the other Christians in the platoon that resented my atheism, that I was basically doomed if I didn't convert. 
I'll keep that in mind.
I was lucky though, the more vanilla Christian types in the platoon were the ones who immediatlely hated me for my atheism. One in particular was fond of smugly and with a derisive satisfaction saying stuff like "you're going to hell." The Baptist/hardcore fundamentalist though actually practiced (most) of what he preached and that's nice to know that religion is a good force in his life at least. Still, he wasted no amount of effort in opening my heart to Jesus's word. What a headache.
The only time I ever really believed in Christianity (having been sort of Christian-by-default-for-belief-in-god or agnostic or merely ignorant most of my childhood) was in my teen years which were, well, rough emotionally cause of all the raging-hormones and unending stress related to school. Even then, it was only cause my best friend was a Church goer and invited me to go one time. Seperated from the raging-hormones period of life though it's too easy to see the writing on the wall.
Still, the point at which I saw the lunacy of fundamentalist beliefs (if not my own) was in Basic Training, where the resident fundamentalist voiced his regret that, although I lived a far more Christian life than a lot of the other Christians in the platoon that resented my atheism, that I was basically doomed if I didn't convert.
I'll keep that in mind. I was lucky though, the more vanilla Christian types in the platoon were the ones who immediatlely hated me for my atheism. One in particular was fond of smugly and with a derisive satisfaction saying stuff like "you're going to hell." The Baptist/hardcore fundamentalist though actually practiced (most) of what he preached and that's nice to know that religion is a good force in his life at least. Still, he wasted no amount of effort in opening my heart to Jesus's word. What a headache.
I know people mean good, but this thread was for people who deconverted from a Fundamentalist upbringing. Those who had a liberal Christian upbringing don't qualify.
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wolveraptor
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A scavenger with soft teeth? Hell, a tetrapod with soft teeth? THat's a laugh.Shroom Man 777 wrote:And then there was that lecturer who ranted that prior to Adam and Eve's gobbling the apple, T-rex coexisted along with people fairly well, and was not a predator. And had soft teeth. And was a scavenger.
Furthermore, there would have to have been death before the apple gobbling in order for T. Rex to be a scavenger. Hah!
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
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- Herb Bowie, Reason to Rock
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Drooling Iguana
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Kinda ironic that the Chronicles of Narnia would have that effect, since it's pretty much diametrically opposed to what the author was trying to say. I wasn't raised around fundies, but my family was fairly religious; we went to church every Sunday and I went to Catholic school up until the eighth grade, and reading the Narnia books was one of the more significant factors in my eventually becoming an Athiest. I think what it boild down to is that Aslan is close enough to the Christian God to invite comparison, and when that happens a) the Christian God typically comes up wanting and b) the act of comparing God to a character who was never claimed to be anything other than entirely fictional invites the reader to wonder why we should assume that God is any less fictional.LadyTevar wrote:I was in junior high, a huge fan of Narnia, and one of Aslan's lines from "The Last Battle" was caught in my head. I don't have the book handy for the exact quote, but it broke down into those who do good in the name of their god Aslan rewarded, all that do evil in his name are punished by the evil god.
So, I started wondering why the God my American Baptist church had taught me about would punish the Buddists, the Muslims, and all the other non-Christian folk who do Good Deeds in the name of their belief, just because they didn't follow Christ. I took the question to my pastor, who was a fire-n-brimstone ye-must-be-washed-in-the-blood conservative 70yr old who'd been preaching most of his life.
I'm sure you can guess the answer. He left out the Bible-thumping, since he wasn't up in front of the podium, but I was told "Ye MUST be Born Again, or Be CAST into-the-Lake-o-Fire!" (hopefully that caught the emphasis/accent)
From that point on, I lost interest in going to church, because I didn't want to follow a God who'd punish good people just because they never heard of Christ or didn't follow the Christian faith. It took many years before I found my own truth: every god ever worshipped is but a shadow of the One Truth. We mortals can't see It well enough to comprehend, so we take what little shards we see and build our religions around It.
In short: There is no One True Way, only shadows of the One Truth.
"Stop! No one can survive these deadly rays!"
"These deadly rays will be your death!"
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"These deadly rays will be your death!"
- Thor and Akton, Starcrash
"Before man reaches the moon your mail will be delivered within hours from New York to California, to England, to India or to Australia by guided missiles.... We stand on the threshold of rocket mail."
- Arthur Summerfield, US Postmaster General 1953 - 1961
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Shroom Man 777
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...zombies?wolveraptor wrote: A scavenger with soft teeth? Hell, a tetrapod with soft teeth? THat's a laugh.
Furthermore, there would have to have been death before the apple gobbling in order for T. Rex to be a scavenger. Hah!
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people
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1123581321
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I was raised by fundies and went to Baptist schools until high school. I was raised on the YEC crap and even went so far to call it Evilution in high school.
Then I graduated, enlisted in the Marine Corps, and at some point figured out that a)sex feels really good and b)I had been lied to. All because I actually read the Bible in May to October 1999, it just didn't make sense. Then I went to college, and received a proper education in science.
Then I graduated, enlisted in the Marine Corps, and at some point figured out that a)sex feels really good and b)I had been lied to. All because I actually read the Bible in May to October 1999, it just didn't make sense. Then I went to college, and received a proper education in science.
1 + 1 = 2; 1 + 2 = 3; 2 + 3 = 5; and so on...
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1123581321
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They're everywhere. A few Saturdays ago, they were outside Sevilles (a local club) at 2 in the morning either trying to convert or condemning to Hell all those evil sinners who were there. Hovind's little park is somewhere around here, but I haven't bothered to find out where it is much less made any plans to go there. Oh, and there's Pensacola Christian College, and they try to put Bob Jones University to shame in the conservative control your life shit.Lucifer wrote:You're from Pensacola? That reminds me...I just looked at a Creation Science Beka Book sitting on the shelf so I could make some rebuttals, and it said Pensacola Florida on it, and I think Hovind is also from Pensacola. Are there lots of fundamentalists in Pensacola?
PCC does little outreach programs too. It sure must suck wearing a suit to the beach to preach to the sinners. The girls at PCC aren't allowed to do this, or at least I've never seen them.
1 + 1 = 2; 1 + 2 = 3; 2 + 3 = 5; and so on...
It was a fairly long process for me. I was raised as a Southern Baptist in a small town in central Florida, and I was pretty much a dedicated fundie by the time I started at FSU. In fact, my undergraduate minor was in religion/theology. I guess what started my deconversion was when I started graduate school. One of the first things they do in grad school for counselors is make sure you're aware of ANY prejudices you might have toward other people and help you work through them so that they won't interfere when you actually start counseling other people. That made me take a long, hard look at some of the beliefs I had been taught since childhood (i.e. Homosexuals are evil, men are superior to women, members of all other religions are going to BURN IN EVERLASTING HELLFIRE, etc.)
That started me down the path towards deconversion. Becoming friends with some people at work who belonged to other religions (and even an atheist or two) also helped. I slowly stopped going to church on my own, but I did still attend whenever I visited my parents.
What finally pushed me into becoming an atheist was when I decided it was time to read through my bible and decide what I believe once and for all. This was about a year ago or so, and I started with the Old Testament. As I read through it I began to realize what an utter bastard God was to everyone in the bible. It took a while, but after I finished I finally decided I wanted no part of any God who acted like that. I did look around at some other religions for a while, but eventually I accepted the fact that none of them made any real sense. I finally accepted the truth and admitted to myself that I am an atheist.
My friends at least have been very supportive of all of this. I haven't come out to my family about being an atheist however, and honestly I'm not sure how to do it. Both of my parents are solid Southern Baptist fundamentalists, and I know it's going to be a massive scene when I do finally tell them about it.
Damn, it really feels good to write all of that out. Really cathartic
That started me down the path towards deconversion. Becoming friends with some people at work who belonged to other religions (and even an atheist or two) also helped. I slowly stopped going to church on my own, but I did still attend whenever I visited my parents.
What finally pushed me into becoming an atheist was when I decided it was time to read through my bible and decide what I believe once and for all. This was about a year ago or so, and I started with the Old Testament. As I read through it I began to realize what an utter bastard God was to everyone in the bible. It took a while, but after I finished I finally decided I wanted no part of any God who acted like that. I did look around at some other religions for a while, but eventually I accepted the fact that none of them made any real sense. I finally accepted the truth and admitted to myself that I am an atheist.
My friends at least have been very supportive of all of this. I haven't come out to my family about being an atheist however, and honestly I'm not sure how to do it. Both of my parents are solid Southern Baptist fundamentalists, and I know it's going to be a massive scene when I do finally tell them about it.
Damn, it really feels good to write all of that out. Really cathartic
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Enforcer Talen
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Re: For us who were raised among the fundies...
Singing hymns about killing heathens kinda confused me. I starting reading the bible, talking with wong, and that was that.Superman wrote:How, and when, did you finally realize that fundamentalist Christianity is bunch of shit? I think for me, it was sort of a long process but one thing that stands out in my mind was talking about Star Trek with another church member. I think we were talking about the one where Troi gets pregnant by an alien and all the other church person would say is, "I don't watch it anymore because she got pregnant by demons." I think that moment sort of flipped the switch in my mind how ridiculous some of the fundie crap really is.
Also, I read "The Truth About Uri Geller" by James Randi. That helped me to get away from the idea of Hell.
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I have no idea if I qualify...
My mother was never religious and likely broke moral rules which I would not and she claimed to be a Lutheran and I am not a Christian. I remember her talking about how wrong Darwin was but at the same time bought me books on dinosours. I guess those books are what clinched my belief in evolution.
I never really though much about the moral rules of Christianity until I was an adult though. I remember my mother talking about various morals in the bible but never truly spend much attention to them. I never really followed them but did not really oppose them either.
My mother was never religious and likely broke moral rules which I would not and she claimed to be a Lutheran and I am not a Christian. I remember her talking about how wrong Darwin was but at the same time bought me books on dinosours. I guess those books are what clinched my belief in evolution.
I never really though much about the moral rules of Christianity until I was an adult though. I remember my mother talking about various morals in the bible but never truly spend much attention to them. I never really followed them but did not really oppose them either.
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"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
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"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
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Steven Snyder
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I was around 9, and was being picked up by my grandfather from boyscouts. The topic of the day was about some atheist kid who got kicked out of the scouts, but I didn't know what an atheist was.
So as I got into the car with my grandfather, I asked him what an atheist was. He told me it was someone who didn't think god existed, my response was "Well that's stupid, of course there is a god." In a move of sheer brilliance my grandfather simply said nothing. Right then and there the seed of doubt took root and I actually started to question things.
A year or so later I was routinely debating a christian friend of mine on god, to his credit he kept things civil and never took offense.
So as I got into the car with my grandfather, I asked him what an atheist was. He told me it was someone who didn't think god existed, my response was "Well that's stupid, of course there is a god." In a move of sheer brilliance my grandfather simply said nothing. Right then and there the seed of doubt took root and I actually started to question things.
A year or so later I was routinely debating a christian friend of mine on god, to his credit he kept things civil and never took offense.
Well, you don't need to bother finding out where his park is. It's on the Internet, and you'd probably be wasting your time anyways. It's just a souped-up version of dinosaurs; an inaccurate one at that. So anyone else know where there are hot spots for fundamentalists?1123581321 wrote:They're everywhere. A few Saturdays ago, they were outside Sevilles (a local club) at 2 in the morning either trying to convert or condemning to Hell all those evil sinners who were there. Hovind's little park is somewhere around here, but I haven't bothered to find out where it is much less made any plans to go there. Oh, and there's Pensacola Christian College, and they try to put Bob Jones University to shame in the conservative control your life shit.Lucifer wrote:You're from Pensacola? That reminds me...I just looked at a Creation Science Beka Book sitting on the shelf so I could make some rebuttals, and it said Pensacola Florida on it, and I think Hovind is also from Pensacola. Are there lots of fundamentalists in Pensacola?
PCC does little outreach programs too. It sure must suck wearing a suit to the beach to preach to the sinners. The girls at PCC aren't allowed to do this, or at least I've never seen them.
The South.Lucifer wrote:So anyone else know where there are hot spots for fundamentalists?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass