Is having a child- even one-destructive

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theski
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Is having a child- even one-destructive

Post by theski »

Not sure what to think of this article.. I am thinking Moonbat...
:)
Is having a child -- even one -- environmentally destructive?
We can't be breeding right now," says Les Knight. "It's obvious that the intentional creation of another [human being] by anyone anywhere can't be justified today."

Knight is the founder of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, an informal network of people dedicated to phasing out the human race in the interest of the health of the Earth. Knight, whose convictions led him to get a vasectomy in the 1970s, when he was 25, believes that the human race is inherently dangerous to the planet and inevitably creates an unsustainable situation.

"As long as there's one breeding couple," he says cheerfully, "we're in danger of being right back here again. Wherever humans live, not much else lives. It isn't that we're evil and want to kill everything -- it's just how we live."

Knight's position might sound extreme at first blush, but there's an undeniable logic to it: Human activities -- from development to travel, from farming to just turning on the lights at night -- are damaging the biosphere. More people means more damage. So if fewer people means less destruction, wouldn't no people at all be the best solution for the planet?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because my wife and I have been talking about having a child. We're the kind of people who reduce, reuse and recycle. We try hard not to needlessly fritter away resources. We think globally and act locally in our day-to-day decisions. So while the biggest quandary of most couples in our shoes might be what color to paint the nursery, we have to ask ourselves, Is the impact of a new person justified?

The problem is stark: The United Nations estimates that the human population, currently at 6.5 billion, is well on its way to 9.1 billion in 2050. Many estimates place a sustainable population in which most of the people on Earth are able to enjoy their lives at between one and two billion.


By nearly every measure -- pollution, carbon emissions, forest loss, fishery depletion, soil fertility, water availability and others -- the growing population is wreaking havoc on the Earth's systems. And it's setting our civilization up for a big, hard fall.

As it is, even with my vegan diet, avid bicycling, recycling and energy-conservation measures, if everyone on the planet lived the way I do, we'd need three more Earths. As far as I know, they aren't making any more of these.


Meanwhile, almost 16,000 humans are born each hour. Regardless of the merits of reducing the population to nil -- as Knight advocates -- it's pretty clear that the world could do without any additional people.

Certainly without more Americans. In 1994, Charles Hall, an ecologist at SUNY Syracuse, performed a life-cycle analysis of the average American (PDF file) by determining each person's lifetime share of the nation's total consumption of various resources. It's the kind of study usually undertaken for assessing the impacts of a new product or policy, and the results are unsettling.


Hall and his colleagues found that a single new American born in the 1990s will be responsible, over his or her life, for 22 million pounds of liquid waste and 2.2 million pounds each of solid waste and atmospheric waste. He or she will have a lifetime consumption of 4,000 barrels of oil, 1.5 million pounds of minerals and 62,000 pounds of animal products that will entail the slaughter of 2,000 animals.

"In terms of energy usage alone, [which is] a convenient measure of environmental impact," Knight says, "the average Ethiopian uses one 310th of what we use. So when an American couple stops at two kids it's like an Ethiopian couple stopping at 620."

According to Knight, there are other ways people can have kids in their lives. "Adoption, foster-parenting, stepparenting -- there are a lot of opportunities for people who really do want to get involved with children." Knight himself is a substitute high school teacher in Portland, as befits his patient but forcefully clear demeanor.

Knight takes care to point out that VHEMT isn't anti-child. Many of its members are parents. Some of its members are children. In many ways, the idea of reducing the world's population is as much about human quality of life as it is about the health of the planet.

"May we live long and die out," says Naomi Thompson, quoting the VHEMT slogan. Thompson, who is in her late 20s and works as an analyst for Wells Fargo in San Francisco, has also concluded that childbearing is irresponsible. "It's not about wanting to kill people, but it's selfish to have a kid at this point when so many aren't getting the love and attention that they deserve."

"I really do love kids," she continues. (Thompson and Knight say they were raised in large, happy families.) "I know it might seem odd for someone who really likes kids to have this stance on breeding -- women are mothering, nurturing people, and I definitely have that in me. But women in this society feel a lot of pressure to have babies, and I would like to see more people expressing that by adopting instead."


snip.......
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Post by gizmojumpjet »

He's far beyond moonbat. I'm leaning towards Jupiterbat. I am glad to hear he self-selected himself out of the gene pool.
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Post by Surlethe »

He's so fucking crazy it's not funny. He supports the extinction of the human race?! That's utterly ridiculous!
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

ALL living creatures produce waste and consume resources, therefore nothing should be allowed to breed. It's only sensible, right ? Right ?
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Post by The Grim Squeaker »

I agree with the need for birth control due to the massive overpopulation of earth, but this is....... :P :lol: :lol:
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Post by NoXion »

Nearly as wacky as those primitivist loons...
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Post by Hotfoot »

Having seen this level of batshit before, my response is very simple:

"You first."
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Post by Zero »

BREEDING IS EVIL!!!! LIFE IS MURDER!!! KILL YOURSELF NOW, OR DAMAGE THE POOR MOTHER EARTH!!!!
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Post by General Zod »

So I take it none of you have ever heard of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement before, huh?
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Post by Zero »

After checking out their homepage, they seem a lot less crazy, since they realize how unrealistic and unlikely their goals are. It seems like a pretty loony idea, but when it gets down to it, it is true that exponential growth of the population will probably have some very very nasty long-term effects on the planet, and by extension, on humanity. But who wants to give up the ability to have kids?
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Post by Anguirus »

^ People who adopt?

I mean, it's a sticky issue. If I ever have kids, it will be after a lot of thought, and I would want to adopt as well.
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Post by Jew »

Hotfoot wrote:Having seen this level of batshit before, my response is very simple:

"You first."
Mr. Les Knight got a vasectomy 30 years ago. Your move, Hotfoot.
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Post by UCBooties »

Ok, we get it, Americans are wasteful, over consuming creatures. But how do we make the leap from that bit of (admitedly justifiable) rhetoric to the extinction of the human race? Single-child families are a responsible option for alleviating population stress by consecutively halving the population each generation down to a sustainable level. Is it likely to catch on any time soon? Not outside certain parts of the developed world, but it's a hell of a lot better than this "let's all die out" bull-shit. Of course they'll whine that eliminating humans is best for the Earth in the long run.

Fine, I can take the long view too. Someday our sun is going to explode (or burn out) and everything on this planet will die. The only way to avoid total extinction is if humans manage to get out of our solar system and establish this ecology elsewhere. So I can throw it back at them that human's are in fact essential to the preservation of our eco-system. Is it a stupid argument? Hell yes! But no less impractical than theirs.

Furthermore, how do they ever expect to convince anyone of this? At least a one-child awareness program is feasible, perhaps it could even be sucessful if phrased and supported correctly. But how are you going to convince the third-world to stop having children when you can't even convince them to use condoms? This is simply another chance for Veagens to remove themselves from the gene-pool and I say let them, while the rest of us can concentrate on finding responsible solutions to our population problems.
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Post by Surlethe »

Zero132132 wrote:After checking out their homepage, they seem a lot less crazy, since they realize how unrealistic and unlikely their goals are. It seems like a pretty loony idea, but when it gets down to it, it is true that exponential growth of the population will probably have some very very nasty long-term effects on the planet, and by extension, on humanity. But who wants to give up the ability to have kids?
The difference is the exponential growth isn't really exponential growth; it's the bottom half of a logistics curve; over time, the curve will flatten out as the human population stabilizes: various natural (and possibly cultural) limits will act to limit human growth. We see some of those limits in Western culture already; the average family size has decreased from 5-7 to 3-4; some European nations, as well as Japan, actually have, culturally, begun to shrink in terms of population. As the third world modernizes, those same cultural trends will act to slow African and Asian population growth, and the overall growth rate of the human race will slow or even turn negative as time goes on. It's rather absurd to extrapolate the exponential growth curve out to infinity.
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Post by Straha »

DEATH wrote:I agree with the need for birth control due to the massive overpopulation of earth, but this is....... :P :lol: :lol:
There is no massive overpopulation of the Earth, and even if there was even the UN admits now that the world population is, in the long run, going to shrink (I think the official figure now is 4 Billion in 2100) and that's not counting the long term effect of China's horrific and abysmally stupid (not to go into how this is going to screw any chance China had of becoming a major economic power for centuries) one child policy.
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Post by Zero »

Surlethe wrote:
Zero132132 wrote:After checking out their homepage, they seem a lot less crazy, since they realize how unrealistic and unlikely their goals are. It seems like a pretty loony idea, but when it gets down to it, it is true that exponential growth of the population will probably have some very very nasty long-term effects on the planet, and by extension, on humanity. But who wants to give up the ability to have kids?
The difference is the exponential growth isn't really exponential growth; it's the bottom half of a logistics curve; over time, the curve will flatten out as the human population stabilizes: various natural (and possibly cultural) limits will act to limit human growth. We see some of those limits in Western culture already; the average family size has decreased from 5-7 to 3-4; some European nations, as well as Japan, actually have, culturally, begun to shrink in terms of population. As the third world modernizes, those same cultural trends will act to slow African and Asian population growth, and the overall growth rate of the human race will slow or even turn negative as time goes on. It's rather absurd to extrapolate the exponential growth curve out to infinity.
Oh, I certainly don't expect population growth to continue like it has in the past, what with women having these 'rights' and all that. Industrialization and education tends to shift the family dynamic a bit. I know this. But I don't think that in the next 5 years, population is going to go down. I don't think anyone expects population to start decreasing until around 2050, IIRC. Until then, there will still be more and more people in the world, which means there's more and more mouths to feed. More and more people to take care of means that our impact on the environment will probably actually increase. We're still going to fuck things up a bit before we can start saying safely that it's not an issue.
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Post by Darth Servo »

Nice self-contradictory attitude these idiots have. The whole point of not damaging the environment is to make life better for PEOPLE.
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Post by Anguirus »

^ Agreed. Despite the crazy name of their group, I get the impression that most of them aren't advocating the extinction of the human race, at least not anytime soon. Only a few of the loonies, and you know what? Fuck them.

If they were ACTUALLY for human extinction, they wouldn't come out and say it. They'd say "Have a ton of kids! No, really!" If the growth rate continued indefinately (not that it would or could) the human race would very messily commence a mass die-off. The few survivors can be mowed down by the military equipment the secret organization for human extinction has hidden for that very purpose. :P

The faster and uglier we go, the better for "Mother Nature," because on a geological scale our damage to the earth would be "healed" in no time.

So these guys have sort of an idiotic long-term view, but their short-term view is not completely wacky. Having fewer kids is definately a good thing.
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Post by Hotfoot »

Jew wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:Having seen this level of batshit before, my response is very simple:

"You first."
Mr. Les Knight got a vasectomy 30 years ago. Your move, Hotfoot.
She wants to make the human race extinct. Go ahead. She can start with herself.

See how well the movement lasts when the progenitors don't pass it on to their kids. :roll:
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Post by Quadlok »

We don't damage the ecosystem, we simply weed out the stupid, weak, and overadapted. The only difference between us and an asteroid is that we feel badly about it afterwords. Rats, coyotes, black bears, mice, possums, pigeons, mallards, geese, peregrine falcons, pile perch, fleas, starlings, gray squirrels, atlantic salmon, cows, dogs, pigs, chickens, turkeys, rabbits, silk worms, and ostriches, to name a few species, all seem to have benifited from our presence.
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Post by Seggybop »

He's right that having an kid is horribly destructive to the environment. However, our existences are of much higher priority.
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Post by Zero »

Seggybop wrote:He's right that having an kid is horribly destructive to the environment. However, our existences are of much higher priority.
Why?
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Post by Molyneux »

Hotfoot wrote:Having seen this level of batshit before, my response is very simple:

"You first."
Well, he has. This guy apparently does believe what he's saying...I disagree, but I respect the guy's willingness to sacrifice for his convictions. As long as he keeps it to the level of rhetoric (rather than trying to enforce it), I have no problem with him.
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Post by Hotfoot »

His movement will never reach critical mass. End of story. They will die out quite literally, maybe having some followers, but the simple fact of the matter is that such revolutionary ideas and movements do not happen over the course of a single generation.

Okay, so they get some kids to adopt. The lesson is passed on for, what, another generation? Woop-dee-fucking-doo.

Fred Phelps has a more successful method of propegating his lunacy, and is thus more of a danger and worth getting concerned about.

By the way, if he really believes this so strongly, why doesn't he go to countries with massive overpopulation problems and preach his method? :roll:
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Post by OculusMortis »

We know we'll never see the day there are no human beings on the planet.
They are stupid, that quote alone proves it.
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