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Italy was probably the most underwhelming combat force of WW2 (poor morale, absolete tanks, etc...), but was there anything they were good at?

eg, there fleet was supposed to be pretty impressive (well, on paper anyway, it's not like they used it).
And how about equipment like small arms, aircraft, artillery,... ?

Frogmen operations. Their naval commando's were pretty good, even managing to severely damage the Queen Elizibeth in one of their raids. Their modest successes are quite impressive when you consider the state of underwater breathing gear in WWII.

They also used a lot of chemical weapons when the other guy couldn't fight back (Ethiopia).

The DB 605 powered Italian fighters Reggiane Re.2005, Macchi C.205 and Fiat G.55 were quite decent planes at the time of their introduction. However since they appeared shortly before the armistice they saw only limited service and even all three models added up only around 600 were ever built.

Why the Italians decided to produce three different, but quite similar, fighters simultaneously is a bit of a mystery to me. Seems silly really, especially when you consider the state of Italian industry at the time.

wautd wrote:absolete tanks, etc...

In 1940 their M13/40 medium tank was not obsolete by most standards, with a then impressive 47mm cannon and reasonable 40mm armour (with specs just like France's tactically successful Somua S35 cavalry tanks, but lower in construction quality). But their generally mediocre performance in North Africa was likely due to crew training, poor strategy, and bad logistics (this was out in the middle of the desert). While they had utter crap like the M11/39 and 33 Tankette, their M3/40s weren't so bad if they used by the British and Gemans.

Sub machine guns and pistols. Of course said weaponry was made to very high tolerances

The Beretta M1935 pistol was as big a trophy in Italy as the Lugar was in Europe with the exception that the M1935 was designed as a hold out last defense weapon so it was easy to carry and hide.

The Beretta Model 38 SMG was easy to handle, light and highly accurate for a SMG due to the high tolerances set by Beretta in it's manufacture.

The problem with Italy is that they modernized their entire army earlier than the rest of Europe. That isn't such a big deal until you fight a war in the 1940s with military gear from the mid 1930s.

I believe German commanders in North Africa said Italian Infantry were quite fine. Their performance was largely on par with everyone else, and they had enough will to fight. The did not however, speak very highly of their officers and leadership though.

CaptHawkeye wrote:I believe German commanders in North Africa said Italian Infantry were quite fine. Their performance was largely on par with everyone else, and they had enough will to fight. The did not however, speak very highly of their officers and leadership though.

IIRC, this was a fault of the rapid expansion of the army not really having enough competent NCO's to go around.

I am by no means an authoritative source for World War II, especially compared to the rest of the board, but the way I understand it, the Regia Marina (Italian Royal Navy) was not exactly that bad of a force, they just happened to be crippled by bad leadership and supply.

And of course, they were thoroughly outclassed by the Royal Navy, whom happened to be their main foe in the Mediterranean.

Nah. Regia Marina had piss training, poorly designed vessels, and useless equipment. Having bad "leadership and supply" were only symptoms, Regia Marina had a lot of deep seated problems as a naval force, and ended up being so impotent they spent most of the war hiding from the Royal Navy while it went on a rampage in their own back yard. Early in the way they had tried to sortie against Allied Naval forces (not just the Royal Navy) on numerous occasions, and every time they got their asses handed to them.

Horrendous light and medium machine guns. Really truly awful, copping the worst design features from other nations' weapons and combining them into fully-auto jamming machines.

Ian Hogg's stuff on the subject is actually kind of funny, to read.

Italy had very good bombers, attack planes and transports in the 1940-42 period, though by 1943 it had failed to introduce any new models in numbers which is symptomatic of the entire Italian war effort.

I don't think Italy modernized any sooner than its opponents and allies, since even Germany and Russia in the 1939 to 1942 period had a lot of crap from the 1930s they were forced to phase out (like the Panzer IIs and T-28s).

Out of the major powers I'd say Imperial Japan was the worse in keeping up with rapid wartime developments on all fronts, with machineguns worse than what the Italians had, not properly issuing submachineguns to their infantry, keeping their tanks rooted in 1935 for too long, and having their aircrat carriers being fitted with obsolete AA guns.

I remember reading something that said "While the Royal Navy drinks rum, and the Americans prefer whiskey, the Italian Navy sticks to port."

CaptHawkeye wrote:I believe German commanders in North Africa said Italian Infantry were quite fine. Their performance was largely on par with everyone else, and they had enough will to fight. The did not however, speak very highly of their officers and leadership though.

To add to that: The german commanders (Rommel) spoke highly about some Italian formations, like the Ariete and Littorio divisions. The other divisions...well, let's just say that I have read quotes and personally talked to members of the Afrika Korps who basically said that the Ariete was the only Italian division that actually was of any use.

Of course those are highly subjective accounts (blaming the Italians is a common excuse for having lost the war in Africa) yet that is the gist of it.

One of the major problems was that, for political reasons, Mussolini was prevailed upon to shift from the trinary division to the binary, creating a series of new divisional commanders who had no business in those posts.

As in many other armies eventually allied to Germany, the officer corps was the province of a higher class found mostly in the north, while line troopers were southern conscripts. Special considerations for the officers reinforced this natural alienation and reduced unit cohesion.

Radar was first pioneered by the Italians, who fumbled the lead, btw.

The Savoia-Marchetti SM-79 Sparviero torpedo bomber was a reasonable anti-shipping attack aircraft.

Some of their light armour was decent. The Autoblinda AB series of Armoured cars were quite good and the Sahariana scout car was pretty respectable.