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I just glimpsed an episode of "Martial Law" and saw the ending where a wheel-chaired guy and a chick was able to disarm several heavily-armed men on psycho-drugs. Right while the maker of the drugs, an international terrorist organization, was airing as how these men are supposed to be unstoppable to a bunch of potential buyers.

The people in question were of course, idiots. Idiots for killing the person responsible for making the drug (even though, it was obvious that the men didn't care about pain or death), idiots for not testing it out in field condition, idiots for making distrust among their would-be buyers by killing their leaders and idiots for thinking this drug would be a truly powerful weapon.

Just because a soldier doesn't care about pain or death, it doesn't mean he won't be shot and won't die.

Either way, it got me thinking.

Was there any historical examples of such drugs? The name "berserker" come to mind, but was that confirmed? Were there examples of gangs or even actual terrorists using such a drug?

The Somalis chew khat, which contains an amphetamine like substance (cathinone). And there have been reports of Iraqi insurgents (Maahdi Army?) injecting themselves with amphetamines and/or adrenaline (don't have any sources though).

Zixinus wrote:Was there any historical examples of such drugs? The name "berserker" come to mind, but was that confirmed? Were there examples of gangs or even actual terrorists using such a drug?

Berserker is confirmed AFAIK. And you cannot of course forget the original Hashashin, which were the first medieval organization to use drugs and terrorist means.

In antiquity, several people have used drugs to fortify their troops, a practice that was widespread until the emergence of the Roman empire. While the matter is a bit more complex, the general line is that being stoned does not go well with discipline and forming of a battleline.


Also, almost every US combat pilot is given chemical cocktails that may be considered drugs.

Every Russian infantryman in WWII was issued a bit of vodka before an attack.

It's entirely probable a crapload of armies throughout history did the same thing

^Nah, that's not what I was talking here. I especially left out alkohol, because even through WWII it was common practice among some armies to let the men drink. A lot.

That was the case in every army in history, except the really disciplined ones.

Hell, even as far back as WW2 many allied nations issued their men amphetamines to "keep them going" in combat.

Even before that, there's many cases of alcohol, marijuana and other drugs being used to "stimulate" the troops.

If I recall, there is some evidence the Zulus have used drugs+warriors in the past.

There was an argument that hung around for a long time suggesting that a sect of medeival shi'ites used narcotics to produce drug fueled visions of paradise to recruit would-be assassins. I'm fairly certain that Bernard Lewis debunked this a few decades ago, though.

weemadando wrote:Hell, even as far back as WW2 many allied nations issued their men amphetamines to "keep them going" in combat.

Even before that, there's many cases of alcohol, marijuana and other drugs being used to "stimulate" the troops.

That story about the amphetamines has an even darker counterpart on the axis side - the germans were very found to issuing huge loads of them to their troops and some scholars have suggested that it may have increased the potential for the user to committ atrocities.

Which wouldn't surprise me that much, given the stories of roid rage that are commonplace in modern society. Now imagine giving those guys an MP and tell them that they are surrounded by subhuman scum....

It's entirely probable a crapload of armies throughout history did the same thing Very Happy

I would have to look, but during the period of Hungary where it was a crushing-nation between the Osman empire and the rest of Europe, there was a line of castles and fortresses. The empire couldn't expand without taking these out.

I recall that there were several references in both in-period and later fiction to giving wine to the soldiers.

Also, almost every US combat pilot is given chemical cocktails that may be considered drugs.

Why? What do these do?

In antiquity, several people have used drugs to fortify their troops, a practice that was widespread until the emergence of the Roman empire. While the matter is a bit more complex, the general line is that being stoned does not go well with discipline and forming of a battleline.

But does with work well on a wild skirmish or as a last-ditch effort?

Zixinus wrote:

Also, almost every US combat pilot is given chemical cocktails that may be considered drugs.

Why? What do these do?

The USAF issues its pilots stimulants in order to get more man-hours in the cockpit for forces working at high operational tempo.

These stimulants were in the spotlight after a pair of USAF pilots were brought up on charges for having dropped bombs on an allied emplacement in Afghanistan (no time to check, but I believe it was the incident in which a number of Canadian soldiers were killed).

The Air Force's original intent was to court-martial both pilots; in the end the court-martials were abandoned after defense attorneys announced that the pilots had been flying exceedingly long hours, strung out on stimulant drugs on the orders of the superiors, in order to keep planes in the air as much as possible, and that the drugs had eroded their judgment and responses to the point where they could not properly be held liable for their mistake.

Zixinus wrote:

In antiquity, several people have used drugs to fortify their troops, a practice that was widespread until the emergence of the Roman empire. While the matter is a bit more complex, the general line is that being stoned does not go well with discipline and forming of a battleline.

But does with work well on a wild skirmish or as a last-ditch effort?

Well, it depends. Usually those drugs and/or rather liberal amounts of alcohol were used for one thing - prevent people from running away and to fight of PTSD and other psychotic factors. Ancient warfare was a lot of close quarter warfare, and it was very, very scary. Imagine a phalanx closing in on you, or heavily armoured horsemen bearing down on you. Few men would withstand such charges and one can hardly blame them.

To put it bluntly: To "toughen" the men up, you can use either discipline or other measures. To use discipline, you need well-drilled and motivated troops. For that you need a lot of time. Now, if you do not have that - and remember that Rome was the only state that had a professional standing army until the Sassanids came along - you would not get that many men like that. So the bulk of your army would be made out of militiamen, mercenaries or other people who most likely neither have the discipline nor are extremely well motivated.

The reason why most people used alcohol and drugs in antiquity was simply to fortify themselves. That is hardly unknown to modern armies as well - at Verdun, the average french infantrymen was issued about 1.5-2 liters of wine per day. When you are high and/or drunk you do not tend to care that much. You would also suck as a fighter, but better a bad-fighting one than one who runs away.

If you are at a last-ditch effort, it doesn't usually matter. Incidentally, desperate men will fight better and seem to be less drunk as usual. For example, see the last stand of the Visigoths at Mount Vesuvius.

You can, however, totally forget night fighting and ambushes.

The Nazis were experimenting with anabolic steroids and aside from using it on Jews in Jew Camps, they also used them on their own SS men.

They even say that Hitler dosed himself up on 'roids to keep going, despite the myriad of afflictions ravaging him as the war went on.

PeZook wrote:Every Russian infantryman in WWII was issued a bit of vodka before an attack.

It's entirely probable a crapload of armies throughout history did the same thing

During the Russian Civil War, Trotsky got the army at Kronstadt fairly drunk so they would charge across a frozen lake.

Thanas wrote:

weemadando wrote:Hell, even as far back as WW2 many allied nations issued their men amphetamines to "keep them going" in combat.

Even before that, there's many cases of alcohol, marijuana and other drugs being used to "stimulate" the troops.

That story about the amphetamines has an even darker counterpart on the axis side - the germans were very found to issuing huge loads of them to their troops and some scholars have suggested that it may have increased the potential for the user to committ atrocities.

Which wouldn't surprise me that much, given the stories of roid rage that are commonplace in modern society. Now imagine giving those guys an MP and tell them that they are surrounded by subhuman scum....

I recently read a book on the days of LRDG and the SAS in the desert, where they were issued with amphetamines. The veterans readily admit many of their actions which they later felt were "unnecessary" or "very close to murder" most likely stemmed from the fact that they were buzzing at the time.