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What it says-- in your opinion, what are the best surprising/shocking moments in history? They don't necessarily have to be influential moments per se, although they can be; for example, the assassination of Franz Ferdinand would be one such in my opinion as (conspiracies notwithstanding) it came out of the blue, surprised a good many nations, but World War I was perhaps inevitable even without the assassination. And it doesn't have to be a surprise for everybody, although that's very nice as well; the D-Day invasion would qualify as the Germans didn't have the faintest idea it was about to happen. IIRC, the main reason there was any serious resistance was because there were already troops and (some) fortifications in the area anyway-- otherwise, they were clueless that they were about to have an Allied army marching up the beaches.

Some commentary upon these moments would be good as well; what the historical context was like, what the consequences were, and so forth. Battles, assassinations, even just people falling sick... and getting better unexpectedly?

Note, things like the 'two little princes' being killed by their uncle in England, that doesn't really count as such because it wasn't very surprising per se (ooh, little heirs got offed by evil uncle, evil uncle gets throne and sweeps it under the rug, matter of course for the times). However, the assassination attempt upon Lorenzo de Medici might count, even though he survived-- it was a surprise to the Medicis, but in its aftermath, even against Papal wrath, he managed to keep Florence strong and cemented his power. If he had been killed along with his brother, this could've endangered Florence's standing in Italy and affected the Renaissance as we know it, with Florence's status as an artistic and mercantile centre of power.

Mods, if this is more suited to OT, please punt; otherwise, jump in !

I'd say there were a lot of puckered spinchters in Japan around summer of 1945, that's for sure.

Coyote wrote:I'd say there were a lot of puckered spinchters in Japan around summer of 1945, that's for sure.

The reminds me of the scene in "Grave of the Fireflies" where Seita asks about what the state of the Japanese Navy is, where his father was serving, and responds in shock and horror to find out that there was no Japanese Navy anymore and Japan had lost the war utterly. Some culture shock there that was actually present in Japan at the time. Even as their country burned around them, their defeat to many came as a complete surprise.

The assassination of Ahmed Shah Masood. On the day it was reported I had an uneasy feeling that something major was going to turn on his death...

Anwar Sadat being assassinated, Israeli raid and rescue of hostages in Entebbe, the Titanic sinking, Cornwallis surrendering, signing of the Magna Carta, Star Wars being a box of smash to name a few.

A Bombs on Japan is certainly one of, if not the, greatest "Oh Snap" moments in history

the D-Day invasion would qualify as the Germans didn't have the faintest idea it was about to happen. IIRC, the main reason there was any serious resistance was because there were already troops and (some) fortifications in the area anyway-- otherwise, they were clueless that they were about to have an Allied army marching up the beaches.

I wouldn't think it'd qualify. The Germans always knew an invasion was coming, the trouble was they couldn't do anything about it.

Elheru Aran wrote: the D-Day invasion would qualify as the Germans didn't have the faintest idea it was about to happen. IIRC, the main reason there was any serious resistance was because there were already troops and (some) fortifications in the area anyway-- otherwise, they were clueless that they were about to have an Allied army marching up the beaches.

Highly, totally false
The Germans were so aware of the coming invasion it worked against them. They even found out the WHEN of the invasion as far as the week and they even found out the day and hour(The week before, and that information was confirmed to late to be useful) of the invasion. The big WTF of D-Day was the WHERE. And that WHERE is what ending up costing them since they built much of their material to meet the expected invasion in the Calais area.

As for Ahmed Shah Masood's death. It was damn unexpected but not earth shatterning except in the hyper modern context.

As far as historical moments go, the Nuking of Japan is pretty much the gold standard as it not only ended the second world war, left a lingering wound on the minds of the Japanese, but showed here and then that direct large scale conflicts between leading world powers was dead and done. Now all wars must be conducted by proxy or by third world shitholes fighting other third-world shitholes. Or guerrilla wars. We will never see such conflict again on this planet but perhaps once.

Deathstalker wrote: I wouldn't think it'd qualify. The Germans always knew an invasion was coming, the trouble was they couldn't do anything about it.

Yeah, but think of being a German in an Atlantic Wall bunker somewhere in Normandy, waking up certain the Allies would be landing near Calais...

And then seeing thousands upon thousands of landing craft, and hearing the scream of incoming artillery.

I would say the hostage rescue at Entebbe was a giant surprise, both from the perspective of the hostage takers and the world at large. Come on: rescuing dozens of hostages, from the middile of an openly hostile country, held IN A MILITARY AIRBASE?

Talk about accomplishing the impossible.

I'll go with the assassination of Kennedy. Not only the first recorded assassination of a US president but of one of the most publicly popular presidents in the history of the country.

Not only did it sanctify what could have turned out to be a mediocre at best and military boondoggle creating administration, it allowed LBJ to the reigns of power and all but ensured further escalation in Vietnam.

His brother's assassination was also a bit of a WTF moment, but it's impact in history is much less.

Napoleon's escape from Elba has got to count. Also, although not a single event per se, the whole rise of Octavian was a very "what the fuck" experience for his rivals and enemies. They just simply could not believe that the snotnose boy was outplaying them at every step. To be truthful, Octavian was pretty lucky as well, but then again that applies to most great leaders.

Military WTF moments:

• Napoleon arriving at Moscow, finding it largely deserted and the Russians not asking for peace terms.
• German armored attack through Ardennes in May 1940. Caught the the already questionably motivated French army almost totally off guard.
• Soviet pincers closing at Kalach, west of Stalingrad, November 22 1942. At the time such a bold two-way pincer was something the Germans considered almost impossible for the Red Army to pull off.

KrauserKrauser wrote:I'll go with the assassination of Kennedy. Not only the first recorded assassination of a US president

"First recorded assassination"? Forgetting Lincoln now are we? James Garfield? McKinley? I know you probably refer to the Zapruder film...

The Meiji Restoration. Japan was quickly on the road to ending up like the rest of Asia. Getting carved up by arbitrary colonial claims like Indonesia and South East Asia. Luckily, Japan decided that national tradition was not more important than survival in the politically and strategically competitive world of the late 19th century. It's too bad they didn't keep that mindset.

Elheru Aran wrote:

KrauserKrauser wrote:I'll go with the assassination of Kennedy. Not only the first recorded assassination of a US president

"First recorded assassination"? Forgetting Lincoln now are we? James Garfield? McKinley? I know you probably refer to the Zapruder film...

On which note I'd have to point out back to the OP that Ferdinand's assasination is hardly all that suprising given the number of prominent political assasinations which occured around the turn of the century (McKinley being one of them)

Whichever unfortunate tribesman who attacked someone with bronze/steel/iron/plate armour first with his primitive weapons and watched it practically bounce off. (Iron chariots, huzzah!).

I can't believe you're not bringing up guns either, a few dozen people slaughtering an army of thousands with magical deathsticks, while obsidian swords (or bows and arrows) just shatter against them? (literally).

When the Spaniards came with a few hundred men and killed the entire Aztec Empire. Come on, hordes of screaming Mayztecans wielding obsidian-festooned paleoclubs and spears being murdered by white-skinned man-gods wielding staffs that belch fire and death! Leaving behind death and disease on their wake, as they gallop across the jungle's darkest heart on monstrous neighing steeds - monsters things born and bred half a world away! It's the thing epics are made of!

I'm surprised no one mentioned Caesar's assassination, since that set the stage for Octavian's rise, and the death of many of Caesar's enemies, be it through battle, or because Triumvirate needed money.

Locked because this has turned into a giant circlejerk with little discussion whatsoever.

Thanas wrote:Locked because this has turned into a giant circlejerk with little discussion whatsoever.

Slightly reviving this to post an awesome joke; forgive me for this thanas:

"Where did all those fucking Indians come from?" - Custer, 1877

"Where the fuck is all this water coming from?" - E.J. Smith (Captain of Titanic), 1912

"What the fuck was that?" - Mayor Of Hiroshima, 1945

"I need this parade like I need a fucking hole in the head." - JFK, 1963

Sorry thanas, that was too amusing to NOT post. We return you to our regularly locked thread.