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This question is inspired by a PM from a member about my avatar as well as my own interest in the matter. The question being what do the symbols on the below image mean? This crest seems to be associated with Dyson, my last name, but I really don't know enough to say if that might be true or if it is what it means and where it came from.

I don't expect much, but even pointing me too a book would be greatly appreciated.

Lady Tevar is a SCA Herald. PM'ing her about this thread is a good place to start.

Maurice Keen wrote a classical account of Chivalry, called, Chivalry. You can get a copy on Amazon for a buck. But specific symbolism in a heraldic device is related to the individual to whom the device was originally given, and the events that surrounded the awarding of the device. It could be for a service, or a feat of arms, or for something like being wounded in the genitals, and all points in between.

The original herald would have written this down, but you'd probably have to get another book on medieval semiotics if you want to dig deeper.

It would help if you said from which country your name comes from, I am going to assume british?
Would it be a anglo-saxon heritage?
If so I'm curious why you do not have a yellow sun on a blue background like most Dysons abroad?


Now the knight and the flowery bits mean nothing, they are common crest holders. The color of the flowery bit red/gold would be used in the colors of clothing and flags etc.
The sun usually represent power and glory.
http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglosss.htm

Sun Eclipsed: the sun or moon when borne eclipsed is drawn exactly as when in his glory, or her complement, but sable.

Argent, a sun eclipsed issuing out of the dexter chief, the beams or--WELDAY, Wheelhurst.
Azure, the sun half-eclipsed[i.e. per pale, sable and or]--DYSON, co. Worcester.

This might interest you:
http://www.dyson-family-of-worcestershire.co.uk/

Imperial Overlord wrote:Lady Tevar is a SCA Herald. PM'ing her about this thread is a good place to start.

She actually PM'ed me about my avatar and that prompted this thread.

Spoonist wrote:It would help if you said from which country your name comes from, I am going to assume british?
Would it be a anglo-saxon heritage?
If so I'm curious why you do not have a yellow sun on a blue background like most Dysons abroad?

Well, I haven't seen my father for years and his parents have both passed away so I really don't know where I'm from on his side. I know that I'm 100% Dutch on my mothers side though.

As for the symbol that I put up, that was found in passing on google and I thought it looked cooler than the blue version that also came up. However based on what Lady Tevar has told me it seems that the blue one is more likely to to tell me more.

Spoonist wrote:Now the knight and the flowery bits mean nothing, they are common crest holders. The color of the flowery bit red/gold would be used in the colors of clothing and flags etc.
The sun usually represent power and glory.
http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglosss.htm

Sun Eclipsed: the sun or moon when borne eclipsed is drawn exactly as when in his glory, or her complement, but sable.

Argent, a sun eclipsed issuing out of the dexter chief, the beams or--WELDAY, Wheelhurst.
Azure, the sun half-eclipsed[i.e. per pale, sable and or]--DYSON, co. Worcester.

This might interest you:
http://www.dyson-family-of-worcestershire.co.uk/

Thanks for this info, especially the bottom most link. You've given me a place to start from.

The form of the helmet visor indicates that it was not a peer. Someone of noble birth would have rounded bars (mostly golden) on the visor, and would usually carry a crown on the helmet. The lack of crest on top of the helmet also points in that direction.

Style of the Shield and Tarp? hints toward 16th century/Renaissance .

Norade wrote:

Imperial Overlord wrote:Lady Tevar is a SCA Herald. PM'ing her about this thread is a good place to start.

She actually PM'ed me about my avatar and that prompted this thread.

Yep, mea culpa

I was thinking the blazon's change to Gules, a sun in splendor eclipsed per pale Sable and Or might have signified a cadet branch of the family, as the main Dyson armory is Azure, a sun in splendor Or. The link Spoonist posted has yet another variation -- Per Pale Or and Azure, a sun in splendor eclipsed Sable and Or. It's a very Medieval way of thought, as the Titleholder and Family Head would have the main armory, while his sons would bear a shield differenced to show their status as Heir, second son, etc. Overtime, these Differenced arms would come to represent the distinct family branch of the bearer, thus showing how far from the Title they were.
(For the non-heraldic inclined -- Gule/Red, Sable/Black, Or/Gold, Azure/Blue. Ancient French was defacto language for Heraldic blazons. The formula is tincture of the background/field, then name of the item/charge, its position/facing/anything out of the ordinary about it, and its tinctiture)

Another thought I had was this was a later armory created for a Nouveau Riche of the 1700-1800s, when several merchants and other suddenly rich men forced their way into the traditional Nobility. These men "bought their silver" as the English put it, getting their armory and such via money and connections, not by inheritance.

Another problem is most 'family name and armory' sites are out for profit, and thus their research may not be as accurate as it should be.

Edit: The Royal College of Arms in England reminds me that Armory is not specific to a NAME, but either to the Title or to the Personage to whom the Arms were awarded. Therefore, the difference in the Dyson arms may be simply because one of those belongs to the Title (or the First Dyson), and the rest are personal arms given to Dyson family members for deeds of valour (or something), and the armory was created to harken back to the first Dyson armory.

Thanks again Lady Tevar and all the others who have posted! This is all very interesting to me and I have a few places to start looking when I get a bit more energy and free time. Like all things to do with history I may never know for sure, but I know more now than when I started and that's enough to make me happy.

Did I start something here? Now Qwerty 42 has a Heraldic Avatar
Per bend sinister Sable and Argent, a bend sinister Gules

LaCroix wrote:The form of the helmet visor indicates that it was not a peer. ...
Style of the Shield and Tarp? hints toward 16th century/Renaissance .

Now you got me a bit curious. Why would a crest holder from a heraldry mill actually give any indication to the rank or age?

Its made to sell things like this:


Please note this is not sarcasm but a genuine curiosity.

Hey, sexy panties can be used to show your crest's age and rank. xD

Spoonist wrote:

LaCroix wrote:The form of the helmet visor indicates that it was not a peer. ...
Style of the Shield and Tarp? hints toward 16th century/Renaissance .

Now you got me a bit curious. Why would a crest holder from a heraldry mill actually give any indication to the rank or age?

Please note this is not sarcasm but a genuine curiosity.

Because gilded round visors were reserved for peerage, while the 'Tournament' style was for 'citizens'.

Also, there was a certain style of shield/Tarp shapes typical for various periods. You can narrow the time of creation down to a century or so. Heralds could do that even more precise.

The only thing I know about heraldry is that Germans like to throw tincture rules out the fucking window.