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One guy on another forum was claiming that the spread of Roman culture is largely a result of the fall of the WRE and he justify it by saying Roman culture didn't spread beyond its borders when the Roman Empire dominated Europe.

While I know that the Roman culture was spread to barbarians living in the Roman Empire, and the spread of Christianity to Ireland during the late Imperial era, is there any other instances of Roman culture spreading beyond the borders of the Roman Empire?

IIRC, some Nestorian missionaries went as far away as India. There was certainly trade between the two lands, with some Indian ports being given Latin sounding names. They wouldn't do that if there was no cultural interchange.

Rome's culture, like the cultures of all powerful long lived empire, was spread through a combination of trade and conquest. And while an unconquered people might not want to become a clone of your empire, it does't mean they won't see elements worth emulating.

Temujin wrote:Rome's culture, like the cultures of all powerful long lived empire, was spread through a combination of trade and conquest. And while an unconquered people might not want to become a clone of your empire, it does't mean they won't see elements worth emulating.

Case in point: Alexander failed to conquer India, but because Hellenic and Indian culture got brought into contact, Indians got their first look at Greek art and, lol, Indian works that look suspiciously Greek started popping up.

In understand that Roman coinage has found its way as far eastwards as what's now Thailand. Whether that was just the coins passing hands or that Roman traders actually ended up there is an interesting question. In addition, the Romans must have known that China was out there via intermediates (and vice versa, that was around the same time the Chinese sent trade missions westward that met barbarians who know barbarians whom no one had ever heard of). You wonder if the Romans or Chinese either ever tried to contact each other.

You wonder if the Romans or Chinese either ever tried to contact each other.

The silk trade did exist in Roman times and Constantinople was a major market for silk and other items. After the Empire was split Constantinople remained a major center of trade with both the middle and far east.
It's one of the reasons why Constantinople was constantly fought over, the trade routes were that lucrative.

The Roman Culture spread for the same reason any New Fad spreads today -- It was New and Different and Exciting to the human psyche.

A lot of Roman legionaires would muster out and settle on land near their last posting. Many cities in Gaul, Britain, and Iberia were started this way. These Roman citizens would take native wives, and their children would be raised Roman for the most part. Thus a Roman Cultural Center is born, and spreads through the surrounding area. Romans had Baths, had plumbing, had concrete buildings, had straight roadways, had so many things that seemed wonderous to the average tribal 'barbarian'. Roman ships brought goods never seen before, and were willing to trade it for what the locals considered trivial items (that would sell well as exotics back home).

But this wasn't all. Becoming a Roman Citizen gave even a backwoods yokel a standing and prestige. Roman Citizens were untouchable, as harming one brought the Legion upon your head. Becoming a Roman Citizen was relatively easy, as well. You could buy your way in, or you could serve in the Legion and win citizenship for your family and heirs ever after. A Roman Citizen could travel anywhere they had the cash to go, along the roads or by ship. Before long, if you *weren't* a Roman Citizen, you had no real status.

The truth of why the Visigoths attacked Rome? They had been on the Roman borders, wanting to become Roman Citizens for generations, and were denied entry. Their men served Rome as loyal Ancillary Legions, but their families were kept outside of Rome's protection. As Rome became more corrupt, these families became even more destitute and were even enslaved by the Romans their men had fought and died for. So, the Visigoths invaded so they could finally have all the good things Rome denied them.

JGregory32 wrote:

You wonder if the Romans or Chinese either ever tried to contact each other.

The silk trade did exist in Roman times and Constantinople was a major market for silk and other items. After the Empire was split Constantinople remained a major center of trade with both the middle and far east.
It's one of the reasons why Constantinople was constantly fought over, the trade routes were that lucrative.

I thought I remember hearing about Chinese envoys visiting Rome, not so sure about the reverse. Thanas could probably confirm that.

Gil Hamilton wrote: Case in point: Alexander failed to conquer India, but because Hellenic and Indian culture got brought into contact, Indians got their first look at Greek art and, lol, Indian works that look suspiciously Greek started popping up.

Is this a reference to the Heliodorus pillar, or something else? I've heard some people describe the Ashoka-stambhas as Hellenic, but is this a mainstream view?

Bottlestein wrote:Is this a reference to the Heliodorus pillar, or something else? I've heard some people describe the Ashoka-stambhas as Hellenic, but is this a mainstream view?

The technical term is Greco-Buddhist syncretism. Alot of the art in what's now western Afghanistan, Pakistan, and western India was influenced by Greek culture. For example, alot of the large surviving Buddhas look more similar to Hellenic art (possibly using models, which Indian art really didn't do previously). Also, you mention pillars and that's spot on; corinthian style pillars with greek scrolls started cropping up on whole Indian built buildings.

As far as I understand it, the native Hindu and Buddhist cultures just happened to LIKE Greek art once they got a taste of it, without it being shoved down their throats by various Hellenic conquests in the East. Likewise, Hellenic kingdoms out there became more eastern influenced.