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I asked this on SB, but I thought some over here might be interested in this as well.

Throughout the Nineteenth and early Twentith Centuries, female national personifications were extremely popular. From Columbia of America to Brittania of the United Kingdom, from Germania of Germany to Kathleen ni Houlihan of Ireland. Wonderful figures to present your nation as, to identify your country as a loving mother was to assign a great deal of love and a fair amount of concern for her safety.

So my question is, what happened to these symbols? Some female personification are still in use, the most recognizable of which are the ones used by a number of former Soviet nations (Mother Armenia, Mother Albania, Mother Russia), America's male personification has far eclipsed it's more personable female counterpart as a symbol of our nation and Lady Liberty has largely supplanted her in the more feminine aspects of our personification, but most seem to have largely faded into obscurity and out of the public view. It seems to me to be an immense waste for these symbols to have fallen out of use as their depictions are all very beautiful works of art and symbols of patriotism.

I would ask others to feel free to post their favorite depiction of their feminine personification, but I'm not sure if Thanas would like us posting pretty pictures in his history threads, even if some of them might be Lady Germania or even Borussia.

I wouldn't dare to object to dear martial Lady Gernania

1914


1849


1848

They went away with nationalism. Those nations that still are nationalist still have them, those that are not, do not.

Thanas, could you clarify that? I'm a little surprised to hear you describe the United States as "not nationalist."

Their nationalist symbol would be Uncle Sam Schatten alluded to in the OP.

Simon_Jester wrote:Thanas, could you clarify that? I'm a little surprised to hear you describe the United States as "not nationalist."

They still have their personification (Uncle Sam).

Ah, sorry. I thought the reference was specifically to the female personifications. And, come to think of it, yes you do still see Lady Liberty in that role now and then.

Whoever in the US decided to replace



with



ought to be remembered in shame forever.

Doesn't anyone else think that Ol' Uncle Sam also looks like one of those snake oil salesmen who used to travel the US and fleece the gullible?

Uncle Sam first appeared on a recruiting poster, as I recall. He is one of those snake oil salesmen who used to travel the US and fleece the gullible.

Yeah, he was basically the copy of a Kitchener ad.

Looks like the whole "guy skewers you with his index finger if you don't join up" style of ad was some kind of fad, in addition to PT Barnum in Clownsuit above we also have:

The original Kitchener ad


Soviet Union


Brazil


Zionist (ouch, that finger looks broken)


and even Nazi Germany asked prospective recruits to pull the finger

Of course, Kitchener was a real guy who actually did want you to join your country's army, not a fictional character... but yes, I think we might have been better off sticking with Columbia.

It's amazing how dodgy and/or unsavory all the characters in these posters look.
Sam, with his clownish, snake oil vibe, Kitcheners boorish arrogant cop demeaner.
The Russian one looks like a yammering homeless man, the Zionist features a creepy goth/New Age bint, while both the Brazilian and French nazi posters wouldn't out of place in the lockroom in a dodgy bathhouse.

In fact the only one I could find with any sort of wholesome appeal is this one:

I disagree about the Zionist one, I think they managed to put a bit of a regal expression on the lady's face. Not so much "creepy Goth bint" to my way of thinking.

A lot of the others are, yeah, pretty bad. It may be that they're somewhat impressionistic: this is particularly obvious in the Nazi posters; they're not meant to look quite human, they're meant to look commanding and authoritative. Might be a bit hard to recapture that without recapturing the spirit of the times. People thought differently during the World Wars.

Besides the misshapen, broken looking index finger of the madam in the zionist ad, I get some severe "high priestess of the occult" vibes from her. The SS poster, besides looking rather dank and gloomy, also has the guy not even pointing at the viewer. Fail.

I also think it's time to honor the OP some more however.

Glorious Mother Russia

No more pointless picture spam in here.

As far as the female ones go, Marianne (France) is the most popular today. They even have her on the government logo.

Zor

[No picture spam, understood. So, examples will be linked. 56K, be warned]

Yes, Marianne is still very present in the French Republic iconography. But it used to symbolize the Republic and the ideals of the 1789's Revolution, not as symbol the French Nation.

First, from where it comes (as far as I know) : link
You then have the logo of the Republic, which is present on pretty much every paper that is official : link
And, traditionally, in every Town Hall, and sometimes in schools you'll find a Marianne Bust : general google link - current model

Britannia still exists on British coinage, so she's not completely forgotten in modern Britain.

Metahive wrote: I also think it's time to honor the OP some more however.

Glorious Mother Russia
-snip photo-

How large is that statue? The perspective I'm getting from the hill beneath it can't be right.

Lord Relvenous wrote:

Metahive wrote: I also think it's time to honor the OP some more however.

Glorious Mother Russia
-snip photo-

How large is that statue? The perspective I'm getting from the hill beneath it can't be right.

Its about 280 ft high. Those blobs at the ground are people.

Thanas wrote:They went away with nationalism. Those nations that still are nationalist still have them, those that are not, do not.

My own nation is the proof of how wrong you are in that.

http://www.stockholmoldtown.se/bilder/k ... r_svea.jpg
Old Svea is very much alive and well, and calling Sweden nationalistic overall, i would rather say there is a severe lack of nationalism if anything!

Whoever in the US decided to replace

ought to be remembered in shame forever.

Doesn't anyone else think that Ol' Uncle Sam also looks like one of those snake oil salesmen who used to travel the US and fleece the gullible?

Someone with a very bad sense of humour perhaps...
And yes, snake oil salesman is a GOOD description for sure.

Tenshinai wrote:

Thanas wrote:They went away with nationalism. Those nations that still are nationalist still have them, those that are not, do not.

My own nation is the proof of how wrong you are in that.

http://www.stockholmoldtown.se/bilder/k ... r_svea.jpg
Old Svea is very much alive and well, and calling Sweden nationalistic overall, i would rather say there is a severe lack of nationalism if anything!

While you are correct for the instance of Svea, I would contend that she never served in the same role as, for example, Germania or Marianne did - rallying the troops for battle against the foul enemies etc.

You are probably correct though that it should be split into nationalistic personifications and those that serve a more nurturing role in iconography.

there's the Lady Bhudda of Vietnam.

she personifies protection, fertility ect. Not an agressive personification, but there is a fierce nationilistic pride in her. Probably helps that she's worshiped as a minor god. This statue was finished a few years ago, and looks out over the sea for the fishermen. img to big to bring in directly.

http://v2.cache1.c.bigcache.googleapis. ... _counter=2

On the aggressive side, you can't get better then the Trung Sisters. Led an unsuccessful rebellion against the Chinese in fine heroic tradition.


Whatever actually happened historically, they're now an iconic representation of warfare and resistance to China in vietnam.

moving westwards, in the UK Old Queen Victoria has become a female personification of the country to a slight extent. Probably more widely recognised then brittania now.



going back to Kathleen Ni Houlihan, she's interesting because of her depiction in the Play by Yeats and Gregory. She starts as the 'Poor old woman' but is rejuvenated to the romantic image of the old Irish queens by the blood sacrifice. Echoes of blood sacrifice, the banshee and of course the Morrigan there. It's not so much nationalistic 'fight for your country' as 'die fighting for your country'.

Speaking of old women, who doesn't know the myth of Baba Yaga? She's the very personification of the 'old russia' before civilization.


again, a none aggressive national icon. What relation did she have to Mother Russia?

I recently saw details on the already mentioned Motherland statue. Full dimension are...

85 metres high, and weighing around 3000 tonnes, unfortunately the statue is listing because the foundations are practically non existent. It's held in place by it's own weight and due to the rising water table it is listing.

There is another Motherland statue, known locally as "Brezhnevs Daughter" in Kiev. It stands 62 metres tall on top of the museum building shown below. Overall height is 102 metres and weight is 560 tons.

The sword in the statue's right hand is 16 metres long and weighs 9 tons, with the left hand holding a 13 x 8 metre shield carrying the Coat of Arms of the Soviet Union.