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Watch a show from the BBC called History Cold Case - Crossbones Girl
The show states a number of things -
It was filthy
Women's work was poorly paid
20% of women in the city worked as prostitutes and not willingly but the only way to survive.

So wondering if it could be used as a case model against libertarianism?
I would also recommend it as a great show.

Even if it was as libertarian as you can get they'll just handwave it and claim that the progress that was made during that time only could have happened with libertarianism. Without libertarianism it never would have been able to advance past where it was prior to libertarian tactics.

This is shit I have been told by a libertarian before. It doesn't matter how terrible conditions were for the average person, industry expanded so it was a good thing.

One thing I have found is that many libertarians want to dismantle safety nets
Was hoping that maybe an example of what things are like without those safety nets might be stark enough to get some to think

It depends what you mean by a libertarian. Do you mean someone who is seriously hardcore and dedicates himself* to reading extreme political tracts and repeats slogans endlessly and has their own screwball theory of history?

Or do you mean someone who just sort of vaguely repeats libertarian talking points from the TV and doesn't really care about it much?

*Nearly always "him"

Kitsune wrote:One thing I have found is that many libertarians want to dismantle safety nets
Was hoping that maybe an example of what things are like without those safety nets might be stark enough to get some to think

I've found that libertarians never consider that they might be in a position to make use of safety nets and don't care abou the "weak" and "lazy" who are on the bottom in their proposed society.

Broomstick wrote:

Kitsune wrote:One thing I have found is that many libertarians want to dismantle safety nets
Was hoping that maybe an example of what things are like without those safety nets might be stark enough to get some to think

I've found that libertarians never consider that they might be in a position to make use of safety nets and don't care abou the "weak" and "lazy" who are on the bottom in their proposed society.

I do find that many people who support the libertarian and conservative "slash safety net" ideas are not wealthy and in fact as pretty poor themselves. They however dream about being the super wealthy.

Yes, this was the motivation that propelled New Labour to a crushing victory in the elections. There's not a lot of rich people, but there's a large number who think they will be and don't want to vote agains their future interests.

There's also a tendency for people who are not successful to blame their own lack of success on bad luck, while blaming the failures of others on incompetence, stupidity, or laziness.

When every dollar is precious to you, the idea that any dollar might be going to support another person who is lazy and stupid (and yet inexplicably not doing much worse than you) is going to be irritating.