VOTE: Cannon Emote

[Coyote]

BTW, ummm... [kicks back, picks teeth, examines fingernails, swills some rum] since we don't have a way to measure a 'quorum' here, how long d'ya want this here "poll" thingy to stay open before we consider the matter closed?

[rhoenix]

That's because your argument IS absurd. First you say it's because it's annoying, then it's because it never gets used, then it's some absurd shit about it being to big 9lol 2.2kb is soooo huge), and then it's because it breaks text format. The only two that actually have any meaning are the size and formatting issues, and both of those have been shot down.

Your objection is basically "I don't like it because, um... I don't like it".

Thank you for showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that you either did not read my reasons, or you did not understand them.

For the moment, I'll assume fault and operate under the assumption that I was somehow unclear in my points. And if you seriously consider your rebuttals to phantom windmills are somehow "shooting my arguments down," then this is descending into a practice of absurdity.

- This is NOT about, and has nothing to do with, the physical filesize of the file (in Kilobytes or any other measurement of disk space). Is that clear enough?

- You did not, in fact, shoot down my point about text formatting in posts. This point still stands, and your ineffectual rebuttal to it did not in any way invalidate my point that this smilie, out of all the ones hosted by SDN, serves the least use.

So you didn't understand that your argument against the kill smile not being used very often can be applied to all smiles or that your "it adds to much size" bullshit is absurd as the kill smile is only a 2.2kb 4 frame .gif? Pretty straight forward. One is in regards to one of your lame arguments, the other addresses your other lame argument.

Again, slippery slope fallacy, and therefore an invalid argument.

My argument regarding this smilie was:

A) the amount of space it takes up in a user's post, and
B) the relative uselessness of the concept it's meant to symbolize as a smilie. All other smilies hosted here have a direct correlation to sentiments - this one does not.

And once again, just to make sure this point is clear: this is NOT about the physical filesize of the smilie graphic, and has nothing to do with that.

And yet you continue responding... Seriously, just shut the hell up already.

Wow, if this thread is inspiring that much anger, you should probably take a walk instead of ranting over the internet about how stupid people are. Doing so might do wonders for your blood pressure, too.

Well, I'm glad someone got appointed as the Chief In Charge of Ensuring Time Is Not Wasted department - I certainly hope you do well in your new post. I fully commend His Timeliness for pointing out that a waste of time such as this would obviously cause the forums to collapse into a heap of random bits, melting the server and whatever shelf it sits on, and thus making sure that whoever's physically hosting the server doesn't have a fire. Good work.

Wow, so you're saying that we should remove the kill .gif because it's a waste of system resources, but when it's pointed out that having a fucking debate about removing a fucking smile is wasting more board resources then an entire months worth of the smile's use does you suddenly switch tracks...

Way to fail, asshat.

I want to frame this. Seriously, I do - not only did the entire point of my sarcasm fly right over your head and make a sickening impact against the wall behind you, you're continuing to kick this horse somehow thinking that it'll make a difference.

Yeah, the recent use of the kill .gif couldn't possibly have anything to do with there being yet another completely useless HoC thread that is about that .gif specifically, right....

That is what brought my attention to it, yes. Good work!

I don't have to provide a reason for why it should be kept as it's already a part of the fucking board, moron. Since you want to have it removed you have to provide an actual reason for it, and you still have yet to give one single credible reason for getting rid of it that doesn't boil down to "it annoys me".

I have, and you've provided no real counter-arguments to its use, or lack thereof. If you're attempting to say "becuz its here lol" as your reason for keeping it, then I'd seriously suggest thinking up a better argument.

Now, just to err on the side of reading comprehension, I'll even make you a summary. Because I care.

SUMMARY:
- I object to the smilie being kept on SDN because of its lack of relative use, and due to the amount of physical room it takes up in a user's post.
- I do not object to the physical size (in kilobytes) of the smilie itself.

So far, your rebuttal has been "nuh-uh."

[General Zod]

I have, and you've provided no real counter-arguments to its use, or lack thereof. If you're attempting to say "becuz its here lol" as your reason for keeping it, then I'd seriously suggest thinking up a better argument.

Since Mike is the one who has to ultimately remove it, and, you know, the board's his, I suppose it didn't occur to any of you chucklefucks that you have to provide way the fuck more justification to get it removed than we do to keep it where it is because of this?

[rhoenix]

Since Mike is the one who has to ultimately remove it, and, you know, the board's his, I suppose it didn't occur to any of you chucklefucks that you have to provide way the fuck more justification to get it removed than we do to keep it where it is because of this?

I don't believe the House of Commons has more power than the Senate or even Mr. Wong regarding board policy in the least. I do however think the point needed to be made, and can then be looked at by eyes necessary to do so.

[General Zod]

I don't believe the House of Commons has more power than the Senate or even Mr. Wong regarding board policy in the least. I do however think the point needed to be made, and can then be looked at by eyes necessary to do so.

Then maybe you shouldn't be demanding justification to keep a feature in place that's been there for years that nobody's ever seemingly complained about until just recently?

[Hotfoot]

Coffee, debate is welcome, flames are not. Also, check yourself. Rheonix has been talking about visual real estate within the post, not about filesize or downloading. It may have been an innocent misunderstanding, but it's clear to me, and he's clarified it to the point where it's blindingly obvious, just stand down on that one.

By the way, this is a subjective discussion, and you know what? In that case, "Nuh-uh I don't like it" is a valid point, though I would hope most people would articulate themselves better than that. If enough people decide that it's an eyesore, that it's useless, or that other things might be better, so what? You're asking for reasons why, he's giving them, but at the end of the day, it's still a subjective opinion. There's no mathematical equation stating that object X makes thing Y less or more attractive to read.

I voted, I don't give a shit, but I'll tell you right now that ALL the bandwidth and time spent gnashing and wailing about this is more effort than it actually TAKES to edit the smiley options and add or remove something.

So you guys can keep going at the pros and cons of this if you really want, but keep it civil, or take it to PMs, but either way, I follow a simple rule. If it stinks, I flush.

[rhoenix]

Then maybe you shouldn't be demanding justification to keep a feature in place that's been there for years that nobody's ever seemingly complained about until just recently?

I wasn't demanding explanation in general for this smilie from everyone. I was demanding it of Coffee of his arguments, as he'd attacked my points taking the opposite tact - mainly because I wanted to see what he was using to support his points.

EDIT: To clarify - unless there are any new points to raise, I'm satisfied with the points made so far.

[The Romulan Republic]

Voted no.

[Mr. Coffee]

Coffee, debate is welcome, flames are not.

Not flaming at all. But when someone acts like an asshat, I'm gonna call them on it.

Also, check yourself. Rheonix has been talking about visual real estate within the post, not about filesize or downloading. It may have been an innocent misunderstanding, but it's clear to me, and he's clarified it to the point where it's blindingly obvious, just stand down on that one.

He didn't bother to clear that up until after I pointed out file size. Now that he has, I've got to ask just how small a monitor he's using is this

Takes up to much space on the screen. Seriously, with all the quoting that gets used, posting a smile is the least of our worries about screen space. once again, it's a non-issue. it's just another excuse to justify his "hurr hurr, smiles are bad, m'kay" bullshit.

By the way, this is a subjective discussion, and you know what? In that case, "Nuh-uh I don't like it" is a valid point, though I would hope most people would articulate themselves better than that. If enough people decide that it's an eyesore, that it's useless, or that other things might be better, so what? You're asking for reasons why, he's giving them, but at the end of the day, it's still a subjective opinion. There's no mathematical equation stating that object X makes thing Y less or more attractive to read.

Exactly, all this boils down to is "hurr hurr, smiley is annoying, hurr hurr". First people go one about "it's annoying", they get told to quit whining about something that isn't even remotely an issue. Then people start bringing up bullshit about it breaking text formatting, only to ignore it when it's pointed out that the kill smile is only really used outside of a paragraph and doesn't effect ftext format at all. Now it's some retarded bullshit about it taking up to much screen space.

But all that is just excuses to cover up that this whole thing is all about "hurr hurr, smiley annoying, hurr hurr". Just because it's subjective doesn't mean it's not retarded, pointless, and pretty much just useless whining.

I voted, I don't give a shit, but I'll tell you right now that ALL the bandwidth and time spent gnashing and wailing about this is more effort than it actually TAKES to edit the smiley options and add or remove something.

Already pointed that out...

So you guys can keep going at the pros and cons of this if you really want, but keep it civil, or take it to PMs, but either way, I follow a simple rule. If it stinks, I flush.

There aren't any actual pros or cons. It's a fucking smiley. It's all going to boil down to "hurr hurr, it's annoying" and "hurr hurr, what's the big deal". My point has been, and still remains, "this is retarded, why is it even an issue in the first place".

[Mr. Coffee]

- I object to the smilie being kept on SDN because of its lack of relative use

None of them are really usefull for that matter. The only one that really gets used often is , so we might as well get rid of all smileys. So either you really do object to smiles period or you're just hell bent on being dishonest about it.

and due to the amount of physical room it takes up in a user's post.

Because 141x23 pixels takes up so much space... The quote tags I just used take up more space. For fuck's sake, height wise out AVs take up more space, so I guess while we're getting rid of things for taking up to much space we should disable quote tags and kill avatars too.

Once again, you're just making shit up to excuse 'hurr hurr, I don't like smiles" or you're just being a dishonest ass for the sake of it.

[Flagg]

BTW, ummm... [kicks back, picks teeth, examines fingernails, swills some rum] since we don't have a way to measure a 'quorum' here, how long d'ya want this here "poll" thingy to stay open before we consider the matter closed?

I figured a week would be sufficient, so that's as long as I have the poll open for.

[Flagg]

Speaking of this being a poll, is there any way the debate can be split off into the discussion thread?

[Havok]

Speaking of this being a poll, is there any way the debate can be split off into the discussion thread?

Damn, look who is being all official.
Actually I agree. I like the split between the vote and discussion threads.

[rhoenix]

Hokay. I just got home, kicked my shoes off, and looked at this thread again.

- I object to the smilie being kept on SDN because of its lack of relative use

None of them are really usefull for that matter. The only one that really gets used often is , so we might as well get rid of all smileys. So either you really do object to smiles period or you're just hell bent on being dishonest about it.

Please tell me that you're seeing this as the black and white fallacy it is.

and due to the amount of physical room it takes up in a user's post.

Because 141x23 pixels takes up so much space... The quote tags I just used take up more space. For fuck's sake, height wise out AVs take up more space, so I guess while we're getting rid of things for taking up to much space we should disable quote tags and kill avatars too.

Once again, you're just making shit up to excuse 'hurr hurr, I don't like smiles" or you're just being a dishonest ass for the sake of it.

So now, in a public discussion, you're accusing me of being either a liar...or a liar. Gotcha.

I'll go with C) "Coffee can't read" for 100 intead, Alex.

If you're seriously attempting to compare actual quoted text to this smilie, you should ask whoever gave you reasoning skills for a refund.

For one thing, quoted text actually directly conveys the sentiments or ideas of another person being quoted, as opposed to the gun smilie...which shoots at things.

As for the next part, which is the part where you cretinously accuse me of either being a liar for secretly being the Evil Overlord of Smilie Haters (I'm not just the president, I'm a member) and trying to pretend I'm not so I can blame all my hate on this one smilie (as creationists do); or I'm just being outright dishonest about this whole thing.

This is just disappointing. I feel like I'm debating a person who thinks he's right because the magical balloon people told him so.

Look Coffee, this isn't about my personal dislike of smilies, as I do use smilies from time to time. Nor do I begrudge others' use of them, as long as it works to convey a sentiment.

If you'll read the thread again, you'll note that out of all of the smilies, I'm objecting to this one specifically, and not any others. This is because this is the only smilie hosted by SDN that is both entirely lacking in sentiment, AND takes up too much room on the page.

There, that's the most clearly I can think of to say it.

Coffee, debate is welcome, flames are not.

Not flaming at all. But when someone acts like an asshat, I'm gonna call them on it.

The world breathes easier for your thankless and tiring work.

Also, check yourself. Rheonix has been talking about visual real estate within the post, not about filesize or downloading. It may have been an innocent misunderstanding, but it's clear to me, and he's clarified it to the point where it's blindingly obvious, just stand down on that one.

He didn't bother to clear that up until after I pointed out file size.

You mean you misunderstood and then stuck by that misunderstanding instead of trying to understand what I was saying.

Coffee, your entire "kb vs. physical dimension" confusion was from one single post (that I can see), on the first page of this thread, and though I never stated "in physical dimensions" to elaborate on "size," I directly referenced text formatting in my next reply.

Has it occured to you that smileys aren't used often period?

Often, and I'm very glad for it.

The most commonly used one is and that only pops up, what, once every few pages of a large thread or once every few threads? By you're retarded logic then we should have any smilies at all because people don't use them much.

That would be kicking my logic down a hill and calling it a slippery slope fallacy, actually. I specifically stated that due to its relative lack of use (and its use) compared to the rest, and due to the size per post that it takes, I don't see it as a valuable addition to the smilie selection.

Seriously, why does this or this or any other smiley bother you? Can anyone give me an actual reason that doesn't involve stupid shit like "it's ugly" or "it's annoying"? So far all I've seen is the cannon smiley breaks up text formatting a little, but every time I've seen it used it wasn't in the middle of a sentence, sot hat's not an issue. In closing, unless someone can give a valid reason for why we should get rid of it, everyone objecting to it are just...

That's basically it, that this particular smilie breaks up text formatting. The others you gave as examples don't because they don't break up text formatting as much, and are more easily ignored.

Relevant parts of the quoted reply bolded. Is this the post, Coffee?

Now that he has, I've got to ask just how small a monitor he's using is this

Takes up to much space on the screen. Seriously, with all the quoting that gets used, posting a smile is the least of our worries about screen space. once again, it's a non-issue. it's just another excuse to justify his "hurr hurr, smiles are bad, m'kay" bullshit.

For the record, I use a 24" HD screen. Nice try to make this a black and white fallacy again, though - I have to give you points for determination.

By the way, this is a subjective discussion, and you know what? In that case, "Nuh-uh I don't like it" is a valid point, though I would hope most people would articulate themselves better than that. If enough people decide that it's an eyesore, that it's useless, or that other things might be better, so what? You're asking for reasons why, he's giving them, but at the end of the day, it's still a subjective opinion. There's no mathematical equation stating that object X makes thing Y less or more attractive to read.

Exactly, all this boils down to is "hurr hurr, smiley is annoying, hurr hurr". First people go one about "it's annoying", they get told to quit whining about something that isn't even remotely an issue. Then people start bringing up bullshit about it breaking text formatting, only to ignore it when it's pointed out that the kill smile is only really used outside of a paragraph and doesn't effect ftext format at all. Now it's some retarded bullshit about it taking up to much screen space.

Or...it was all of the above all along? Goodness, alert the media!

But all that is just excuses to cover up that this whole thing is all about "hurr hurr, smiley annoying, hurr hurr". Just because it's subjective doesn't mean it's not retarded, pointless, and pretty much just useless whining.

I see that in addition to being nominated as His Timeliness, you've also been elected Official Judge of House of Commons Issues. Congratulations on your achievement.

So you guys can keep going at the pros and cons of this if you really want, but keep it civil, or take it to PMs, but either way, I follow a simple rule. If it stinks, I flush.

There aren't any actual pros or cons. It's a fucking smiley. It's all going to boil down to "hurr hurr, it's annoying" and "hurr hurr, what's the big deal". My point has been, and still remains, "this is retarded, why is it even an issue in the first place".

That's...actually a description of "pro" and "con" of the argument. And you've chosen to neither give voice for or against, and instead attempt to take the magical third option. Good work.

[rhoenix]

I've said far more than I should have here, having taken a bad day out in the above post.

I hereby excuse myself of further discussion on this topic, offer my apologies for continuing a useless cycle that does not continue the thread's purpose, and humbly request that the "discussion" between Coffee and I be flushed to the HoS.

[Dark Flame]

I voted no. I don't mind it.

[Uraniun235]

i'm all for whatever option makes people more amenable to having and added to the official roster

[General Zod]

i'm all for whatever option makes people more amenable to having and added to the official roster

i'd like to second this motion

[JointStrikeFighter]

Whats the second one?

[Uraniun235]

that's basically the smiley for sarcastic/snide remarks

[Coyote]

that's basically the smiley for sarcastic/snide remarks

Hmmm, I dunno. Would it ever get used here?

[Uraniun235]

i use it sometimes

[TheMuffinKing]

I voted. Let it never be said that I have failed in my duty to prevent narrow minded persons from foisting their ideas upon our great site!

[Rye]

I voted abstain because while it's fugly, I have adblocked it and don't care about the suffering of others that could easily do the same.

I also wholeheartedly support the addition of :V. That is a supoib and salient emoticon.