[Discussion] Schuyler Colfax (Responses)

[Thanas]

Hmm...looks like the permaban is what is going to stick - I'm not sure I'm okay with that. Yes he needs a break from the board, clearly, but permanently? I just wanted to say that I, as a board member, am not necessarily okay with that - for what it's worth.

Eh? A permban requires a supermajority of all voters and a 50% quorum. The quorum is there, but there is no way a permban is going to get a supermajority.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Hmm...looks like the permaban is what is going to stick - I'm not sure I'm okay with that. Yes he needs a break from the board, clearly, but permanently? I just wanted to say that I, as a board member, am not necessarily okay with that - for what it's worth.

Eh? A permban requires a supermajority of all voters and a 50% quorum. The quorum is there, but there is no way a permban is going to get a supermajority.

And even if he got hit with a permaban, if he truly shapes up and matures, he can always write Mike requesting to be let back on. It's happened before.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh c'mon, Hawkeye was obviously talking about people that have already had contact with him and not actually every single person on the board.

I see it as bloody posturing of the "Lolz get the chewtoy" variety. I think its fucking clear enough what people think of him without having ih hammered in EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME. Its like having to reiterate the fact any troll we've dealt with in the past (take your pick there is so many) is an idiot (and we've had people do that, such as the "hur hur look what Timmy/Scooter/Jack Chick did!" threads.)

What exactly would you call that?

Being immature and impulsive and failing to think things out? We've got ample evidence of that and he doesn't do any of that, but rather just jumps in headfirst and lets his mouth get him into trouble before actually considering what he is saying. Thats part of the reason WHY rehabilitating him (if possible) while he remains on the board is impossible.

You are certainly correct that that is one of his major problems, but the idea that there is some specific group of people that are waiting to pounce is incorrect. What actually happens is that he keeps posting the same retarded shit in the same forums which have the same regulars. (Testing and G&C to my knowledge) So yes it is invariably the same people, but there is no "vendetta" as it is a new response to something new every time. Hell, the amount of stupid that he lets fall out of his brain almost negates any kind of vendetta because it is always something new and about something different. On top of the fact that almost all of the people that do give him shit want him to just fucking shut up.

to which I ask, why does anyone bother even RESPONDING to him anymore, especially if they know (and it seem fairly evident if you HAVE interacted with him) that responding is only going to encourage him? It seems to me just ignoring anything he says as stupid would be the way to go. For alot of people it seems he's pretty much under the radar (as in they ignore stupid shit he says most of the time.)

Edit: And I've already made it clear in the Seante thread I don't believe Vendettas exist against SC, just that some people seem to enjoy doing nothing more than ragging on him for being a supposedly perpetual chew toy. You can't tell me that there aren't people on this board who evidently have no other function than to jump on supposed idiots and yell at them (which basically in my mind is spamming.

[Connor MacLeod]

Hmm...looks like the permaban is what is going to stick - I'm not sure I'm okay with that. Yes he needs a break from the board, clearly, but permanently? I just wanted to say that I, as a board member, am not necessarily okay with that - for what it's worth.

Eh? A permban requires a supermajority of all voters and a 50% quorum. The quorum is there, but there is no way a permban is going to get a supermajority.

I think we can safely say there is enough sentiment expressed that some FORM of banning might be appropriate however, so we probably could go with the tempban option. And just to emphasize the point, we can make it an instant permaban if h comes back and hasn't changed, if we feel a need to emphsize the point. (as in "no more chances")

[Chardok]

Ahh, sorry, I am not familiar enough with procedure. Wasn't aware of the supermajority requirement. Uhh...carry on, then. I

approve?

[CaptHawkeye]

I see it as bloody posturing of the "Lolz get the chewtoy" variety. I think its fucking clear enough what people think of him without having ih hammered in EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.

So basically, I was right and you were just being a nitpicking cockslap? Thanks for that.

You can bitch all you want about how often the peanut gallery goes to town on him. That does not negate that their is a fucking reason for it.

[Connor MacLeod]

So basically, I was right and you were just being a nitpicking cockslap? Thanks for that.

Oh knock of the stupid posturing you twit, I'm not impressed.

You can bitch all you want about how often the peanut gallery goes to town on him. That does not negate that their is a fucking reason for it.

Sure it does, because he's proven that he'll just feed off it and it just degenerates into pointless spammy bullshit because neither side stops. But hey, if you feel you're entitled to be spammy, feel free to say so.

[DaveJB]

And even if he got hit with a permaban, if he truly shapes up and matures, he can always write Mike requesting to be let back on. It's happened before.

How many times, though? The only two that come to mind are Allbran_Sustain, which didn't exactly end well, and Alyrium Denryle, who had an otherwise good history before the series of blowups that resulted in his temporary departure from the board back in 2005.

Admittedly some temp-banned people have done good on their return, but I think they were also ones that had a history of good contributions before making some major fuckup.

[Connor MacLeod]

Preventing him from returning to the bloody forum is the only real option we have. He won't willingly change while he's here, and while he's here it just becomes an endlessly repetivie cycle with him and those who bitch back at him. Which means that all we can really do is get rid of him at least until he can demonstrate he changes. It's tiresome to have to see and hear this pointless bullshit drama over and over and over again, and he's already had chances to change.

This isn't exactly an unprecedented move either, you can look at stuff done with Darkstar, Jack Chick or any number of similar cases where it gets numbingly repetitive and no purpose is served (Darkstar fed on the attention he got too, I might add. And while it may be debatable whether SC is an actual troll or not, since there evidently ARE people who see some good in him, he's still a nuisance to the board and that is a good enough reason to remove him from the board, where he can no longer feed off said attention. Especially if people are unwilling to stop feeding him, as it were.)

[chitoryu12]

I'm honestly quite unsure of how to deal with this guy.

My first thought was that we should just tempban him over the summer and put him on a strict probation upon the restart of the school season. I figured that two months would be enough to give him some time to figure what he was doing wrong and at least take some steps to fix it.

Now? I'm thinking that maybe he should be gone for good. I have no love for trolls who screw with people just to see them get pissy and curse a lot. It gets worse when he keeps coming up with hastily-composed bullshit excuses to try and make people feel sorry for him and come to his defense or lessen the punishment he knows is coming. It seems like every response he gives is nothing more than either lashing out at his detractors out of anger, or just an "I'll change, I promise! Gimme ONE MORE CHANCE, buddies!" plea for mercy.

I'll be completely honest in that I like having someone to make fun of when they act like an idiot and everyone can have a laugh about him. But now that he admits to outright trolling, it feels less like ribbing and more like feeding. It may be in our best interests if he's gone. He's been causing nothing but problems and wasting peoples' time with his attention whoring or poor attempts at humor, and when he's not doing that, he's promising constant change that never comes. I picture Ed in Shaun of the Dead saying "Chill out, man," when Shaun gets angry at him, and it feels like the board is Shaun and he's Ed.

[CmdrWilkens]

Eh? A permban requires a supermajority of all voters and a 50% quorum. The quorum is there, but there is no way a permban is going to get a supermajority.

I think we can safely say there is enough sentiment expressed that some FORM of banning might be appropriate however, so we probably could go with the tempban option. And just to emphasize the point, we can make it an instant permaban if h comes back and hasn't changed, if we feel a need to emphsize the point. (as in "no more chances")

Taking the current vote totals there are:

14 for PermaBan
25 for TempBan (counting PermaBan+ Lesser, TempBan Only, and TempBan + Lesser)
20 for Title (counting PermBan+Lesser, TempBan+Lesser and Title Only)
2 No Punishments
6 Abstains

Currently TempBan is the leading preference with length To Be Determined.

[Edi]

And even if he got hit with a permaban, if he truly shapes up and matures, he can always write Mike requesting to be let back on. It's happened before.

How many times, though? The only two that come to mind are Allbran_Sustain, which didn't exactly end well, and Alyrium Denryle, who had an otherwise good history before the series of blowups that resulted in his temporary departure from the board back in 2005.

Admittedly some temp-banned people have done good on their return, but I think they were also ones that had a history of good contributions before making some major fuckup.

Bluewolf was summarily permabanned for asking for help to hack another board, but came back a year later after an email appeal. He's been a good member since. He grew up a lot in that year.

[Darth Nostril]

Well my initial reaction was "Just ban the moronic twat forever", but after being reminded of Bluewolfs reinstatement I would say temp ban Colefail until he's 18, then give him a probationary six month reinstatement to prove that he's learnt and improved.
If not then onto the bone pile.

[Havok]

I would be more inclined to be lenient, if it were up to me, with SC if he even remotely tried to stop posting as he said he was going to just for a few days... at least while his punishment thread/vote was ongoing. The fact that he continues to post in Testing, (I could let G&C slide) which even he acknowledges is a major problem for him, shows that he really doesn't care at all about staying on the board and he just continues to ignore the advice of everyone from the newest members to the most tenured, right on up through the moderator staff.

Fortunately, it is not up to me.

[Schuyler Colfax]

I would be more inclined to be lenient, if it were up to me, with SC if he even remotely tried to stop posting as he said he was going to just for a few days... at least while his punishment thread/vote was ongoing. The fact that he continues to post in Testing, (I could let G&C slide) which even he acknowledges is a major problem for him, shows that he really doesn't care at all about staying on the board and he just continues to ignore the advice of everyone from the newest members to the most tenured, right on up through the moderator staff.

Fortunately, it is not up to me.

Yeah my bad, I forgot that I said I would stop posting when my summer starts, and I'm on day two of my summer.

Hav, stop trying to figure out my intentions, cause you're really bad at it , like me hitting on women bad. In this case, I continued posting because I figured that since I was going to get temp banned anyway (that's where the votes seem to be gearing toward), why not just wait for it to happen, I just figured that it would have happened by now. So quit with the psychoanalysis bullshit.

So to reiterate my point, this will be my last post, for a while. Happy?

[TithonusSyndrome]

You know, if you wanted to make your intention to cease posting for a while seem more legitimate, you could announce it in a post that doesn't simultaneously serve as a wounded, huffy retort to someone else's unflattering assessments of your performance. It appears suspiciously as though you crave having the last word, and on a forum this big, you aren't bound to get it.

[Havok]

Yeah my bad, I forgot that I said I would stop posting when my summer starts, and I'm on day two of my summer.

Hav, stop trying to figure out my intentions, cause you're really bad at it , like me hitting on women bad. In this case, I continued posting because I figured that since I was going to get temp banned anyway (that's where the votes seem to be gearing toward), why not just wait for it to happen, I just figured that it would have happened by now. So quit with the psychoanalysis bullshit.

So to reiterate my point, this will be my last post, for a while. Happy?

Well for one, I know you are lying and that will not be your last post. (Take that as a challenge if you will)
Second, look you fucking idiot. There is no "analysis" going on. You said... I will stop posting. You didn't stop posting. You said you would stop posting in testing. You did not stop posting in testing. You have ignored Wilkens TWICE when he said to stop posting, first when he said it subtly and again when he straight up told you. That is not "analysis", that is fact.

And your reason for continuing to keep posting... man, that just shows how fucking dense you are about the whole situation and just are not going to get it.

[Phantasee]

Just for once, I want to let him have the last word. Just a collective agreement on our part to ignore anything he says, and let him have the last laugh all to himself.

We'll see how much he enjoys being the last person to reply to a thread.

Schuyler Colfax, the thread killer! It will be brilliant, he'll be humiliated and humbled, at best, and ignored and forgotten at worst.

[Edi]

So to reiterate my point, this will be my last post, for a while. Happy?

Since you seem to be intent on simply pushing buttons and trolling, I'll make it easy for you: Either shut the fuck up and leave well enough alone or the poll results won't matter anymore.

[Bluewolf]

OK, I hate to play mod but this is getting on my nerves:


STOP FUCKING POSTING SPAM AND JUST LEAVE

Good god I have never seen someone piss away so much goodwill and forgiveness like you have. You had this on a plate still, you could of pulled yourself back up from the dephs of your misrable mostly posting habits. No more last posts saying how you will do it. Just put your money where you large mouth is.

[Shroom Man 777]

i don't know i was kinda hoping you would spam testing with all sorts of LAEM crap and feed on the negative LAEM attention you'd generate by asking people to photoshop your head on videogame characters from Frysis and engage in "witty exchanges in banter" with everyone else who thinks you're an immature dickweed and shit leik that and have the senate consider banning you for your own good while giving you a mentor bigger brother to help you mature into a wholesomely functional human being

but then i remembered that it wasn't you, but "that guy" instead

my mistaek

[Dark Hellion]

I think one thing we should remember is that even if SC can shape up his behavior, it will probably be at least a year before he can actually become a "contributing member" of the board. He is very young and thus can't provide experiential advice to anyone, he lacks any technical knowledge bases so he cannot contribute like Shroomy can on nursing, broomstick on aviation, or Red on teaching, and he doesn't seem to have the critical thought processes developed that would let him contribute to N&P, SLAM or Vs. debating.

In some ways I almost feel sorry for him because he has raised the ire of damn near the whole board and has no recourse by which to prove himself useful, he can only prove that he isn't useless. But this is the hole he dug himself and I think it may be time for us to bury him in it, instead of simply kicking dirt down on him.

[Shroom Man 777]

You don't need technical knowledge bases or anything to be a worthwhile member. You just need to be clever and entertaining, or basically not annoying, with thoughts and opinions that are worth considering.

But then again, "that guy" is actually rather young. Sixteen, seventeen... he's still got much to learn, so really a permanent decision (or banning) shouldn't be the way to go. Especially since he hasn't incurred any previous legal/judicial action.

[Havok]

Actually a Permanent Ban isn't exactly that, as Bluewolf has shown. If SC feels like he has improved on his own and in his own opinion, during his time apart from the board, he is capable of asking for the ban to be lifted.
A PB is more of a way to force him to think instead of post and participate. It does not preclude him from waiting just as much time reading the board and trolling the chat as he states he likes to do. He has to make that change on his own.

[Connor MacLeod]

I think one thing we should remember is that even if SC can shape up his behavior, it will probably be at least a year before he can actually become a "contributing member" of the board. He is very young and thus can't provide experiential advice to anyone, he lacks any technical knowledge bases so he cannot contribute like Shroomy can on nursing, broomstick on aviation, or Red on teaching, and he doesn't seem to have the critical thought processes developed that would let him contribute to N&P, SLAM or Vs. debating.

To be fair, there are alot of "long time" members who have a spotty or poor history of "contributing" too, while some relativeyl new members do or have contributed positively right off the bat.

And really, I dont think this board "teaches" any thing critical unless its through getting your ass beaten in verbally - you either have the skills (or develop them on your own) to cope, or you dont really last long here. Again, I can think of a few longtime members who would benefit from "critical thought processes" being more developed.

In some ways I almost feel sorry for him because he has raised the ire of damn near the whole board and has no recourse by which to prove himself useful, he can only prove that he isn't useless. But this is the hole he dug himself and I think it may be time for us to bury him in it, instead of simply kicking dirt down on him.

Again, why assume he instigated a strong emotional reaction out of anyone? He annoys people with his antics, but I dont see all that many people (much less a large portion of the board) actively HATING him. Pitying him maybe, or just tired of the drama and BS and all that, or tired of him not getting a clue, but I dont see many people hating him. I suspect that most of the time he's simply under their radar or not worth notice.

Actually a Permanent Ban isn't exactly that, as Bluewolf has shown. If SC feels like he has improved on his own and in his own opinion, during his time apart from the board, he is capable of asking for the ban to be lifted.
A PB is more of a way to force him to think instead of post and participate. It does not preclude him from waiting just as much time reading the board and trolling the chat as he states he likes to do. He has to make that change on his own.

At this point I won't turst his own opinion on "improvement." He has to prove it to others htat he's changed before we let him back . Even if we tempban him and he comes back if he isnt changed I'll be pushing for permban next time until he CAN improve.

The real test will be what he does with the time he's given, or how he reacts to the ban. Either he'll take it as a clue and shape up, or he'll just move elswhere.