StarDestroyer.Net BBS

You know, considering the very high board population of engineers and engineering students, has any thought ever been given to a private forum for all of us to let us ask for advice of each other in, and even just to bitch and boast about the usual and weird rigours of our chosen profession and spend some time with that bizarre brand of humour it seems to imprint everyone in the field with? Membership would be open to anyone on (as in presently attending) pre-engineering track or certified in major (or the equivalent elsewhere) who isn't academically deficient, and everyone who has graduated with an engineering degree. It would exclude software engineers, i.e., it would be Civil/Enviro/Electrical/Chem/Bio/Mech/Nuke/Aero/Industrial/Naval, etc. Verbal affirmation of such status would be sufficient for entrance, though Mike/the forum's minimods could demand proof of status from any member at any time with serious consequences for lying, due to the nature of the engineering profession. I know it would pretty much be a watercooler forum, but I admit it would be a nice thing for me to have, at least, and I'd like to be more thoroughly exposed to the professional culture I'm going into.

Regardless of the highly debatable "need" for such a small subforum with a limited population and selection (And nothing which couldn't be posted in the normal forums ANYWAY), Why should it even be private? (And I don't think there's ANY such need. Even a subforum for university students is debatable and superfluous, let alone for engineering students)
The only benefit I can see out of this is frankly nothing more than a "bragging rights" forum, making it private doesn't even let potential engineering students (myself for example) learn anything for it.
Such a thing would be useless penis waving in my opinion, if anyone wants to start engineering threads/problems/jokes by the discussion, there's no reason not to do it in OP or SL&M.

I second Death, how many damn engineering threads are out there? I can think of maybe 10 or so here.
You can post this sort of stuff in SLAM, it's not like it's congested like OT.
Or basically, show a need.

Death's right. However the same arguements could also apply to the Mess.

(awaits flaming).

:d

There are some of us who aren't engineers and aren't likely to ever be who, nonetheless, occasionally like to watch the engineers discussing things. I sometimes learn something I didn't know before even if I can't follow everything in the conversation. I don't generally say anything in those threads, not having anything substantial to contribute, but that doesn't mean there's no interest among us "civilians". I don't have to be an engineer to appreciate what engineers bring to our society.

Sarevok wrote:Death's right. However the same arguements could also apply to the Mess.

(awaits flaming).

:d

The same arguments can apply to just about any usergroup.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Sarevok wrote:Death's right. However the same arguements could also apply to the Mess.

(awaits flaming).

:d

The same arguments can apply to just about any usergroup.

The argument for most usergroups is either to prevent cluttering of the public forums with stuff that is of interest to very few people.

Ace Pace wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Sarevok wrote:Death's right. However the same arguements could also apply to the Mess.

(awaits flaming).

:d

The same arguments can apply to just about any usergroup.

The argument for most usergroups is either to prevent cluttering of the public forums with stuff that is of interest to very few people.

Or (As I understand it) to keep private, "confidential" stuff away from the open public forums. (The reason for The Mess or some of the... other Groups)

DEATH wrote:Or (As I understand it) to keep private, "confidential" stuff away from the open public forums. (The reason for The Mess or some of the... other Groups)

There is no real specific set of criteria for new private groups but I think the best example of why we would go about creating one can be found in the debates about creating the Knights during the early months of the Senate. The thread went straight to voting and as it predated the "no chatter in vote threads" most of the discussion to be had was in the vote thread itself.

Yeah sure, a forum where all you engineers get to make fun of us libarts grots and we don't even know it.

I thought we've had enough of that with the Messholes. DENIED



P.S. On a more serious note, you will need to demonstrate the need for such a group- how many engineers are there? How much discussion will be going on- you're not in the same field, so the advice you give to each other will likely be of a more generic sort. If the threads will not be so heavily technical as to bore the average reader, why keep them private?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I don't think this is needed (and not just because you won't let me in the treehouse ) but we've plenty of places to chat about various subjects.

phongn wrote:I don't think this is needed (and not just because you won't let me in the treehouse ) but we've plenty of places to chat about various subjects.

I've got to agree with phongn here. To add what he's said I think it's beneficial to members without an engineering background to hear us talking about it, which then invites comments, which in turn allows us to teach; something I think every good engineer (whether licensed or simply degreed) should practice.

Edit: Not to mention getting more practice translating things into layman's terms, something I have to regularly do with my friends.

The Spartan wrote:

phongn wrote:I don't think this is needed (and not just because you won't let me in the treehouse ) but we've plenty of places to chat about various subjects.

I've got to agree with phongn here. To add what he's said I think it's beneficial to members without an engineering background to hear us talking about it, which then invites comments, which in turn allows us to teach; something I think every good engineer (whether licensed or simply degreed) should practice.

Edit: Not to mention getting more practice translating things into layman's terms, something I have to regularly do with my friends.

We've had a little bit of debate in the past about whether or not engineers are obligated to teach or not. Well, no, they're not obligated but it sure is nice when they do so. In some instances you can translate to "layman's terms", but in some you can't. If these sorts of threads were public I would NOT want to see assholes butting in to stir things up, shit out whacko conspiracy theories, or otherwise reducing the primary value of the threads so I would suggest a heavily moderated forum where contributions are restricted to engineers and, while the public at large may ask questions or where to go for more easily accessible information the option exists to curtail non-engineer participation at the moderator's discretion and ruthless pruning where necessary. This would, after all, be primarily for the benefit of the engineers. Wonderful if the public supports them and takes an interest, but not if the public drowns them out.

It was, after all, Mike's essays on technology and engineering in Star Trek (or the lack of it!) that first drew me to this place - it would be a shame to hide such things. There aren't a lot of places to go for solid tech and engineering discussions open to general viewing out here on the wild, wild internet. Like I said, even if I don't understand everything said I do gain something by being in the audience. I think it's beneficial for non-engineers to see real engineers having real discussions about engineering.

I'm an engineering student and I don't see any call for an engineering subforum. After all, what is it about SLAM that wouldn't adequately fill this need?

Methinks subforum fever is a little out of hand, although there's never any harm in throwing out suggestions and seeing if they stick.

Hey, how about a forum for government workers? We need a place to talk about our incompetant co-workers who can't get fired and ways to get them in shit with management along with tips on how to abuse sick days and worker's comp. We can also talk about who managed to take the most days off in a year without getting in shit, how to work less and get paid more, how to steal overtime hours, and share the best "I was signed in at work at collecting pay while I was out playing golf" stories. Also, the proposed subforum should itself have a subforum dedicated to union issues, I'm sure there's plenty to discuss with regards to that. Who's up for a government employee forum?

I'll get back to you on that when I finally get a government job!

Well, okay, there isn't any support for it, so consider it withdrawn, but I just thought it would be rather fun. Part of it is just figuring out who is who, after all. I get the impression of a quite sizeable engineering community on the board but other than a couple individuals like Mike and Olrik, I'm not sure who exactly they are.

And sorry, Phong, but--you were seduced to the computer side, and now you have to lay in your bed!

Duchess, if I may say so, I don't understand why you would suggest the existence of an engineer exclusive forum is a good method to identify engineers. If you're genuinely curious if someone is one or not, why not simply ask?

Bubble Boy wrote:Duchess, if I may say so, I don't understand why you would suggest the existence of an engineer exclusive forum is a good method to identify engineers. If you're genuinely curious if someone is one or not, why not simply ask?

Because I want other people to talk to in a way really that wouldn't be sustainable on the board as a whole?

I didn't find it a very controversial suggestion, since the existence of the MESS is unquestioned, but since nobody's interested, it's a dead letter.

I don't see why this would be a problem. If there are enough interested parties for the private usergroup to be sustainable then why the hell not make it?

I imagine the massive dead-ness of many of the usergroups is a factor; this group would probably be 80% cross-posts with OT and used for a few weeks to swap names and then fall to Cybertron-levels of uselessness.

Ironically, this sort of 'out-of-channel' conversation and personal semi-public discussion is a major part of testing traffic, particularly given that most of the 'can't take internet seriously' people post there. Surely we need a 'not pompous' usergroup?

I approve of this usergroup on the condition that you also create usergroups for programmers, medical professionals, accountants and used car salespeople. Because all those professions have special and unique problems...

Seriously, this is completely pointless.

Starglider wrote:I approve of this usergroup on the condition that you also create usergroups for programmers, medical professionals, accountants and used car salespeople. Because all those professions have special and unique problems...

Seriously, this is completely pointless.

Well, Starglider, this board is run by an engineer, so engineers have always had sort of an especially prominent position on it because of Mike's visbility. Also, does this mean you think the MESS is completely pointless? I'll point out that for all that the military is bound by a rigid code of ethics, so too is the engineering profession--military personnel must be trained to fight and kill and suffer deprivation, but engineers must be grimly aware of the fact that if they're tempted or cajoled into compromising on safety issues by penny-pinching managers and developers they could be responsible for the deaths of thousands (Civil Engineers, the Quebec bridge, Chemical engineers, Bhopal, Nuclear engineers, Chernobyl, and so on), and thus therefore must be willing to risk professional blacklisting to stand up for the preservation of safety standards which preserve countless lives around the world. It's a very different sort of responsibility, certainly, but it is still a serious responsibility with lives being at stake should we fail it, so what makes the MESS more worthy of existence than an engineering usergroup?

A valid argument is that there is no interest in such a board from anyone except myself, so there's no reason for it. But your argument is not a valid one, unless you want to condemn the MESS as well.

That's a fascinating insight into either how your mind works, or how you think internet communities work (I have no idea how they work myself so you may not even be wrong).

Stark wrote:That's a fascinating insight into either how your mind works, or how you think internet communities work (I have no idea how they work myself so you may not even be wrong).

I don't really know how internet communities are supposed to work, either, I've just always found engineering as a profession to have a very ardent defender and proponent in Mike and certainly my friends seem to regard the stereotype of SD.net as being an engineering board, though that is I grant anecdotal. Anyhow, there's no interest, so consider the idea withdrawn and I'd respectfully request that Coyote or Hotfoot lock this thread ASAP.