British SSN Near-Reactor Meltdown?!?!

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MKSheppard
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British SSN Near-Reactor Meltdown?!?!

Post by MKSheppard »

Skimmer, Phong, any more on this:

http://www.tridentploughshares.org/hb3/part5.html#p52
The Hunter-Killer submarines that accompany the Tridents are part of the system and can be disarmed in a similar way to Trident. At present (January 2001), six of the fleet of twelve Trafalgar and Swiftsure class subs have been found at risk of the same cooling and system cracking as HMS Tireless that is still docked at the emergency (Z) berth in Gibraltar undergoing repair after a near reactor meltdown.
Found more info:

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/cndscot/news/001027a.html

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/cndscot/news/001109a.html
The problem on HMS Tireless

There was a serious reactor accident on HMS Tireless on 12th May when the submarine was between Sicily and North Africa. Cracks appeared in the reactor coolant circuit and coolant escaped in the form of steam. The Guardian on 28 October quoted an authorative source as saying that the reactor had been "at the very point of failure", in other words it came close to a meltdown. HMS Tireless arrived in Gibraltar on 19th May and the local population was told that it would only be there for a short time and would then sail to Devonport where it would be repaired.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 21,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 12,00.html

Only now, more than five months after the Ministry of Defence assured Gibraltarians that it was only a "minor defect", are the full extent and dramatic consequences coming to light. HMS Tireless, which has been moored off the Rock since May, was close to a disaster, its nuclear reactor "at the very point of failure", sources have told the Guardian.

The crack, far more serious than first thought, is understood to be at a critical junction of pipes in the pressurised water reactor's cooling system which cannot be isolated. The navy now recognises it is not simply a question of wear and tear: it is a potentially catastrophic design fault. Asked whether it could have foreseen what it is now suspected is a "generic" problem, navy sources sidestep the question. They respond by repeating the mantra that safety is of "first importance".

There is no doubt the navy treats the safety issue extremely seriously. What worries defence and nuclear sources is not what action was taken after the leak on the Tireless was eventually diagnosed - the recall of Britain's entire fleet of strike submarines - but why the initial leak, a symptom of what has turned out to be a much more devastating problem, was not discovered earlier.

"The cracks could not be in a worse position. It is critical to safety," the Guardian has been told. Sources say the Tireless reactor was "at the very point of failure" - in other words a meltdown.

The critical junction of pipes where the welding fault was finally discovered had not been inspected since the first Swiftsure class submarines with this reactor design were built in the early 1970s, sources have revealed. They added: "It is a very serious failure of the navy's inspection monitoring system. It's quite remarkable".

The problem is compounded because the Ministry of Defence, not the manufacturers, Rolls-Royce, is the submarines' "design authority". That is to say, the MoD monitors the submarines; the makers are not liable for any faults.

Naval engineers are said to have been astonished to discover the problem on the Tireless turned out to be so serious. Equally alarmingly, navy sources say the splits in the pipes of the reactor's cooling system were discovered only because of new technology of which they had no previous experience.

Yet the navy is not short of experience of problems with its submarines' nuclear reactors. Polaris nuclear missile submarines were afflicted by reactor problems which turned out to be the same that crippled the navy's older fleet of hunter-killer submarines: cracked pipework in the primary cooling system.

As far back as 1991, Reg Farmer, a member of the MoD's nuclear-powered warships safety committee, revealed that cracks had been found at the base of steam generators in the nuclear reactors. He spoke to Thames Television after the MoD had persistently refused to answer questions from MPs on the grounds that they covered "sensitive military areas".

This week, the MoD said it could not disclose what is wrong with the Tireless reactor "without consulting the Americans first" - the reactor is based on an American design. In July, John Spellar, armed forces minister, told MPs: "The repair work on HMS Tireless is a standard repair following a contained leak of coolant water in her reactor compartment." The work, he added, would be completed "in the autumn."

Given the sensitivity of Gibraltarian opinion, it is likely that repairs on Tireless will not begin until work is completed on one of its sister boats in Britain. Gibraltarians face the prospect of an immobile Tireless sitting off the Rock for a year.

"The mood in Spain, in the towns near Gibraltar, is that it should be towed back to Britain," Michael Castiel, the lawyer representing opposition groups in Gibraltar, said yesterday.

For the MoD that may be a little local problem compared with the navy being deprived of its entire submarine strike force for at least five months. It would be crass not to admit the "pain and grief" involved, a navy source said.

The recall coincides with the sale of Britain's remaining conventionally powered submarines to Canada, a decision taken by the Tory government.
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Post by Vympel »

I expect that sort of bungling from first and second generation Soviet pieces of shit, not Western 3rd generation SSNs- the HMS Tireless was commisioned in 1985 for cripes sake.
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Post by NecronLord »

The tireless is the one on gibraltar?

And as for the fucking useless tory govt who have never heard of freaking mothballing. The country is a bloody fucking island. Yet they feel the urge to sell off chinks of the fucking bloody navy!
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Post by phongn »

I don't pay that much attention to the RN's submarine force, but I've heard Sea Skimmer mention reactor problems.
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Post by Enlightenment »

NecronLord wrote:The tireless is the one on gibraltar?
The Gibraltar incident was several years ago. HMS TIRELESS is most likely back in service by now.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Old news, and mostly bull shit.

The T and S boats did have some reactor probules last year, at one point all of the T boast where dockside having work done. However it was never anything liken ear meltdowns. I'm not familiar with this incident it self, but I'd bet they had a problem with the main coolant loop and switched to the backup. I doubt any steam got released. If it did it would be from the secondary loop, which would not endanger the reactor. Primary loop coolant is highly radioactive and would have made headlines around the world and resulted in the decommission of the sub.

This is just infatuation by the same people who don't see the different between Cherblinsk and 3 mile island. Notice that bit of information all comes from the Guardian. They barely rate above supermarket tabloids for information quality.


The problems got sorted out after a few months. I don't believe any of the boats are currently having problems.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

NecronLord wrote:The tireless is the one on gibraltar?

And as for the fucking useless tory govt who have never heard of freaking mothballing. The country is a bloody fucking island. Yet they feel the urge to sell off chinks of the fucking bloody navy!
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The Upholders where not the brightest investment in the first place and quite surplus of RN requirements beyond landing the SBS. THey where kay for ASW barrier operations in the North Atlantic and off Norway, but theres not much demands for that.

Selling them to Canada was hardly a stupid move. Though I'd bet the funds went into some other stupid project rather then being given to the RN.
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Post by phongn »

Sea Skimmer wrote:This is just infatuation by the same people who don't see the different between Cherblinsk and 3 mile island. Notice that bit of information all comes from the Guardian. They barely rate above supermarket tabloids for information quality.
Hence why I rarely trust them. Their article on the SA80 sounded more like "Thatcher is evil" than "SA80 is bad."
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

phongn wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:This is just infatuation by the same people who don't see the different between Cherblinsk and 3 mile island. Notice that bit of information all comes from the Guardian. They barely rate above supermarket tabloids for information quality.
Hence why I rarely trust them. Their article on the SA80 sounded more like "Thatcher is evil" than "SA80 is bad."
Pretty much
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Post by Vympel »

Except that there's criticism of the SA-80 from other places, not just the Guardian. If anyone could fix it- H&K could- though I wonder they probably just went ahead and remanufactured the things so they were brand new rifles :)
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Vympel wrote:Except that there's criticism of the SA-80 from other places, not just the Guardian. If anyone could fix it- H&K could- though I wonder they probably just went ahead and remanufactured the things so they were brand new rifles :)
No one's claim the SA-80 is an even remotely serviceable weapon, but the Guardian like always has seized on a real problem, the L85/86 sucks, and used it to attack someone whose not reasonable but they have an ax to grind with. Typical Guardian reporting, though they also just make stuff up or inflate a minor event and then use it to attack someone with.

Even H&K could not save the L85, short of a rebuilding that uses only the barrel with everything else all new. The result is the British threw well over 50 millon pounds at it and got something thats still crap. The cost of every rebuild could have bought several new assault rifles. I still dont see how thats possibul but it was.
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Post by Vympel »

Misplaced nationalism maybe ... Enfield made a piece of crap. That's gotta hurt. Like its Enfield. They made good bolt action rifles for WW2 ...
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