They want to delete us again

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2005-08-30 01:56am

Out of curiousity. Why do we care? A file that had damn near no actual information about us that few people are ever gonna see got deleted. So what? Is it Pride? Is being on Wikipedia a prestigious event?

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-08-30 01:58am

Captain Cyran wrote:Out of curiousity. Why do we care? A file that had damn near no actual information about us that few people are ever gonna see got deleted. So what? Is it Pride? Is being on Wikipedia a prestigious event?

My view initially. But when the 3rd VfD came, it became a matter of principle.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2005-08-30 02:04am

I'm with Kaz on that one, it'd be one thing if they did it twice and got it the second time, I really wouldn't mind so much it'd just be proof that the world is full of assholes. Still now that we've survived two votes and less than a freaking month later they try to vote us out AGAIN just smacks of assholes who should be shot down because they aren't everyday jerks but serious assholes who shoud be removed from the gene pool for the safety of the rest of the monkeys out there.

Zadius · Post by **Zadius** » 2005-08-30 02:48am

Did anyone else notice that a user "FCYTravis" has signed up here at SD.net? FCYTravis is the same name as the Wiki admin who deleted us.

"Prepare the SmackDown for our latest newbie, FCYTravis" currently shows on the main page.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-08-30 02:54am

I'll activate him. Let's see what he has to say.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-08-30 03:02am

Hah, some anon chickenshit deleted my link on the SW vs. ST article, saying that my site had a "tenuous" connection at best to the debate. I guess he missed the ten fucking megs of fanfic.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2005-08-30 03:16am

Why were the SDNet forums created in the first place? Wasn't ASVS good enough?

I don't know the all history, but I'm guessing that you wanted a moderated forum to get away from all the annoying noise of Usenet, where any damn fool with a modem can make as much of an ass of him/her/it-self as possible.

And now you're upset that Wikipedia isn't playing by the rules? Wikipedia, where any damn fool with a modem can make as much of an ass of him/her/it-self as possible?

In this respect at least, Wikipedia is a giant step backwards in the evolution of the Internet.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 03:22am

You want to be credible on Wikipedia, register and participate in articles that interest you. Don't edit without registering.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 03:24am

Assuming they don't yank this from my profile, we can still edit and improve the article from here.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 05:07am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Captain Cyran wrote:Out of curiousity. Why do we care? A file that had damn near no actual information about us that few people are ever gonna see got deleted. So what? Is it Pride? Is being on Wikipedia a prestigious event?
My view initially. But when the 3rd VfD came, it became a matter of principle.

After the last battle with Alistair McMillian, I deleted Wikipedia from my links. It was the first SD.net VFD that had me put Wikipedia back into my links.

It is indeed a matter of principle.

I would recomend that anyone interested in putting this article back up establish themselves as Wiki members. That was the defining thing that lost the most recent vote.

40 keep votes, only 17 granted. 29 delete votes, 27 granted. Those that voted against were established members.

Zadius · Post by **Zadius** » 2005-08-30 05:25am

40 keep votes, only 17 granted. 29 delete votes, 27 granted. Those that voted against were established members.

I still don't understand the logic behind that. A vote by someone with few contributions but who supports his arguments well should be worth more than the vote from an established member who uses fallacious reasoning.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 05:29am

Wikipedia, the encyclopedia that welcomes all to edit, but only wants established members to vote on whether or not articles should be kept.

Wonderful contradictory logic.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-08-30 08:02am

FCYTravis can suck my dong, fuck wikipedia and it's pro-troll stance.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-30 08:27am

Meh, it's really only a problem with articles of such nature. It seems that 95% at the least of the rest of the articles don't have such a problem

Akaramu Shinja · Post by **Akaramu Shinja** » 2005-08-30 08:48am

Seems like vanity to be honest. Perhaps if there was a single article that gathered all active Sci-fi forums up with their corresponding articles allowing people to essentially research the Sci-fi online community through the mother article, sure. But that's not what this was, I also think the Spacebattles one should be removed or added to my suggestion above.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-08-30 10:40am

WyrdNyrd wrote:Why were the SDNet forums created in the first place? Wasn't ASVS good enough?

I don't know the all history, but I'm guessing that you wanted a moderated forum to get away from all the annoying noise of Usenet, where any damn fool with a modem can make as much of an ass of him/her/it-self as possible.

And now you're upset that Wikipedia isn't playing by the rules? Wikipedia, where any damn fool with a modem can make as much of an ass of him/her/it-self as possible?

In this respect at least, Wikipedia is a giant step backwards in the evolution of the Internet.

Actually, I think of Wiki as itself a form of forum that takes an encylopediac form. People register (and some who don't) make posts. Only there, the posts are called "articles". Everybody is then allowed to edit that man's post.

And how can you claim it is unmoderated. It has admins who has the power to ban people and delete articles.

Anyway, ASVS was good enough, but ASVS embraced the AOTC:ICS with open arms too. As is pointed out (initially by me) in the Wiki article on Star Trek vs Star Wars, when you do that, debate pretty much stagnates - what else is there to debate.

Besides, ASVS was dying before then. When the battle was still going on, of course it was fun. I think it was when the two Mikes had their debate that it really began to end.

As for moderation, I barely noticed moderation even exists on this board until the recent overt crackdowns by our dear webmaster. As far as I was concerned, the mods existed to manage (deleting posts in places where the Delete function is disabled, fusing posts, splitting off tangents...). It is a place you can get into wars with mods on an equal footing (you have to watch yourself if the mods are harsh).

I don't think I'm endangered. But it did remind me this is a moderated board in fact as well as in name.

Dalton wrote:I'll activate him. Let's see what he has to say.

Let's be nice to him too, even if that means tolerating any idiocy he does for a bit longer than the norm. Maybe after his investigation, he'd realize his mistake in allowing idiots to guide his thinking.

Dalton wrote:Hah, some anon chickenshit deleted my link on the SW vs. ST article, saying that my site had a "tenuous" connection at best to the debate. I guess he missed the ten fucking megs of fanfic.

I'd have to admit I won't exactly scream about it. FanFics ain't debate. SDR is what happens when you use a debate mentality in a FanFic - as we all know, that didn't work out well.

The positions in most of those FanFics, while "pro-Wars" in the sense that a Star Destroyer can take out several top of the line Fed ships, are often not the kind of positions their authors would have taken in a debate even at the time. This became even more true for any story that came out after the AOTC:ICS.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2005-08-30 03:17pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:And how can you claim it is unmoderated. It has admins who has the power to ban people and delete articles.

It's unmoderated because the voice of an ignorent troll is considered to be equally as valid and informed as the voice of an expert. As was made clear, post count is what matters, not the quality of your posts.

Besides, ASVS was dying before then. When the battle was still going on, of course it was fun. I think it was when the two Mikes had their debate that it really began to end.

That "debate" happened long after the creation of these forums.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 04:12pm

Couple things.

The admin who deleted the article as per the VFD results signed up on SD.net for the sole purpose of explaining the results of the VFD. Since I questioned the results in the discussion page, the need for him to post here disapeared and so he isn't going to bother.

Second item. Some idiot recreated the SD.net article and now got SD.net protected deleted. This makes any attempt to recreate the article almost impossible.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-08-30 04:16pm

didn't take long for out dear friends at TK to try and claim responsibility for the deletion.

http://ww w.trollkingdom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30076

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 04:21pm

No doubt some votes came from there, but they aren't responsible. I doubt seriously TK members are established Wikipedia members. The primary people trying to kill the article argued on bad logic, or were previously banned trolls from SD.net.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2005-08-30 04:29pm

if you wish to spit upon Assassin X, he is in the AIM Chat, gloating..

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-08-30 04:44pm

Alyeska wrote:Second item. Some idiot recreated the SD.net article and now got SD.net protected deleted. This makes any attempt to recreate the article almost impossible.

*Bets that it was one of the delete voters, doing it for that express purpose.*

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-30 04:48pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Second item. Some idiot recreated the SD.net article and now got SD.net protected deleted. This makes any attempt to recreate the article almost impossible.
*Bets that it was one of the delete voters, doing it for that express purpose.*

Unlikely. The IP of the user who did the recreation doesn't match.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-08-30 04:51pm

So anyway: Now we've established that Wikipedia is fascist, along with being editable by any idiot, possessed of an absolutely retarded absolute neutral point of view policy (thus meaning that facts have no weight if they're disputed), and prone to have incomplete articles and information. Yep, I really detest the place.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2005-08-30 08:43pm

I would say that this VfD was analogous to a secret election.

We were not allowed to tell anybody about this, because that would be vote-garnering, and meatpuppeting.