US Army's FCS

[Vympel]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... nd/fcs.htm

Follow all the links. Opinions?

The prototypes look mean. I especially like the tracked ones, because I'm a tread-head. I am very concerned about weight however. There's no way you can have a well-protected anti-armor vehicle that weighs only around 20 tons.

The concept of 'information dominance so our vehicles never get hit' also sounds like pie-in-the-sky nonsense.

[MKSheppard]

There's no way you can have a well-protected anti-armor vehicle that weighs only around 20 tons.

<sarcasm>
Yes there is! Just put it on two legs and call it a Gundam!
</sarcasm>

The concept of 'information dominance so our vehicles never get hit' also sounds like pie-in-the-sky nonsense.

Yep. We had Information Dominance back in 1991, but our M-1A1s
still got hit, along with Bradleys, LAVs, etc

[MKSheppard]

The Line-of-Sight / Beyond Line-of-Sight (LOS/BLOS) Vehicle is a FCS combat vehicle with 105-120mm cannon with LOS/BLOS capability. Also included is a Self Protection Weapon.

The Future Combat System (FCS) is a joint effort between the Army and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency intended to replace the Army’s current fleet of General Dynamics M1 Abrams tanks, United Defense M2 and M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles and other armored vehicles. According to Army officials, the Army should attain the technological innovations needed to create the objective force as projected. Key among these are the technologies required to produce the future combat system, which will be a replacement for the 70-ton M1 Abrams tank that will have the same lethality and survivability but will weigh only 20 tons.

What the fuck have they been smoking? Same stuff the Gundam
whores have been smoking too....

[Vympel]

What the fuck have they been smoking? Same stuff the Gundam
whores have been smoking too....

LOL ... unless they've developed sci-fi equivalent shields that noone's heard about- it's safe to say the rooms of the Pentagon were filled with smoke and haze when they thought of that one.

[Ted]

I think the main thing is that the new armour that's being developed is a hell of a lot lighter than conventional armour. But I still think that 20t is a bit light, 30t 'd be a better goal, I think.

[Sea Skimmer]

The problem is simple. Even with a 65-ton tank you're still venerable to quite a few missiles, and if you cut it down then soon everything will kill you. Thus for any form of dedicated lightweight armor you may as well go the whole nine yards and only both with armor against stuff like HMG fire and artillery fragments and maybe light auto cannons. Its almost a case of all or nothing.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

A 20t armored vehicle? So many factors to ask about... weight-to power ratio (It has too be fast to screw up enemy targeting) weapon-to-weight ratio(If it can't carry any guns you just have a very heavy SUV)

Etc.

[Sea Skimmer]

Something I forgot. Survivability doesn&#8217;t mean the same armor level; it just means that penetrating or spalling hit is no more likely to kill the crew of this thing then that of a M1. That&#8217;s more a product of crew placement and fire supression along with spall liners then shear armor. If a HEAT jet or DU slug comes through your main armor then its already a non issue.

The M2 is considered as survivable as the M1 yet its total weight is around half.

[Rubberanvil]

Have the pentagon factored in the weight of the crew, ammo, fuel into the figures?

[EmperorMing]

I just glanced at this thing. I would agree that 20 tons seems a little light for an armoured vehicle. But if they have got the armour weight down a lot then...

I gotta see this to believe it. My impression is that the Army is relying on information superiority on any future engagements.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I curious how they intend to move so many forces in such a short amount of time. I never see any mention of how many flights of C-5s are required to do this, and what happens if they C-5's are busy elsewhere.

Is this thing supposed to be C-130 transportable? C-17 ?

[Sea Skimmer]

I curious how they intend to move so many forces in such a short amount of time. I never see any mention of how many flights of C-5s are required to do this, and what happens if they C-5's are busy elsewhere.

Is this thing supposed to be C-130 transportable? C-17 ?

Yes I believe it is meant to fit in a C-130. C-5 and C-17 is a sure thing. You could fit several on a C-5, unlike M1's the weight would be spread around enough that the floor wont crack if you load more then one.

Really, in a major war, which you need to bring in armor quickly, what else are the C-5's and C-17's going to be doing but supporting it? We have several hundred after all, and the growing civilian fleet of wide body cargo aircraft can do a lot of the logistics we used to need them for.

Even if they can't land at the forward most strips generally you could bring 747's within C-130 range and use those for landing in a hot landing zone.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Really, in a major war, which you need to bring in armor quickly, what else are the C-5's and C-17's going to be doing but supporting it? We have several hundred after all, and the growing civilian fleet of wide body cargo aircraft can do a lot of the logistics we used to need them for.

I just brought it up because the military tends to ignore the logistics side, thats all. I dont know how many times I heard "we can fight two regional wars" when we really didnt have the lift capacity to due so.

Im also concerned about recent experience with the LavIII where they can fit it into a C-130, but only after stripping it down, deflating the tires, and they crew still doesnt fit.

I remember in Desert Shield the airlines threw a fit about having to give their planes to the military under the contracts they have signed. I thought the government should fine them every hour they balk at helping.

[Totenkopf]

Maybe they are going for lighter weight with the aim of making it heli-transportable.

Although 20 tons is still too heavy for the largest US helicopter which can carry weights in the high teens (of tons).

The Russians have choppers (Mi-26 HALO) that coudl carry it, but that's not much help to the US.

Maybe they'll bring out a new generation of transport helicopter capable of lifting such a load.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Maybe they'll bring out a new generation of transport helicopter capable of lifting such a load.

I dont think anything under development. Even if it was, it still needs to be brought to the theatre by large aircraft or ships. Helicopters are just for local transport in the immediate area.