More FUN from our Government! Whee!

[MKSheppard]

Homeland Security Bill allows forced vaccinations

"We're here from the government, and we're here to HELP you..."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=29682

HOMELAND INSECURITY: Physicians' group decries legislation establishing new Cabinet agency

WorldNetDaily.com
Posted: November 16, 2002, 1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Jon Dougherty

A physicians' group is among a growing number of critics imploring the Senate to scrap portions of a proposed homeland security bill they say will seriously undermine civil liberties and grant the federal government unprecedented - and unconstitutional - power.

The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons said yesterday that one section of the legislation would allow the head of the Health and Human Services department to order Americans to receive potentially deadly smallpox vaccines against their will.

The bill gives "the HHS secretary virtually unlimited powers to declare an emergency and order smallpox treatment that could include forced immunizations, detainment and quarantines," said AAPS.

The 480-page bill passed the House Wednesday night on a 299-121 vote and is currently on the fast track to Senate passage. But as more details of the bill become known, the number of critics who oppose all or part of it also increase, including members of both parties as well as liberal and conservative analysts.

New York Times columnist William Safire, in an editorial Thursday entitled, "You Are a Suspect," attacked the entire measure, claiming a provision in the bill that establishes a broad Defense Department-administered database of information on every American is akin to author George Orwell's book "1984."

"To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you - passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the FBI, your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance - and you have the supersnoop's dream: a 'Total Information Awareness' about every U.S. citizen," Safire wrote.

Called the Defense Department's Total Information Awareness program, it would be administered by a totally new department called the Security Advanced Research Projects Agency.

AAPS said the dubious medical emergency language is contained in Section 304, titled, "Administration of Counter Measures Against Smallpox."

The bill gives HHS authority to declare an actual or potential bio-terrorist incident while giving the secretary the power to "administer 'countermeasures'" - like forced immunizations - to "a category of individuals or everyone." Also, the bill gives HHS the power to "continually extend" the emergency declaration indefinitely, without Congress' consent.

"Also, if you are harmed" by the countermeasures, "you cannot sue or take any other civil remedy," AAPS said.

"This section will give the [HHS] secretary unlimited power to define a real or potential threat, to take any measures he decides and to do it for as long as he wants," said Kathryn Serkes, a spokeswoman for the group. "It's 'Alice in Wonderland' time again - an emergency is just what [the secretary] says it is."

Some lawmakers are also alarmed at the scope of the bill.

The legislation "gives the federal government new powers and increases federal expenditures, completely contradicting what members were told about the bill," said Rep. Ron Paul, R- Texas, on the House floor before the vote Wednesday.

"Furthermore," he continued, "these new power grabs are being rushed through Congress without giving members the ability to debate, or even properly study, this proposal.

"I must oppose this bill and urge my colleagues to do the same," he said.

Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., also opposes the legislation.

"We're making a huge mistake passing the bill at this time," he said Thursday. "There has not been a single hearing" on its contents.

Expressing concern about the manner in which the bill was being fast-tracked, Byrd added: "If necessity is the mother of invention, then politics is the mother of bureaucracy."

Other problems with the bill, AAPS says, "include centralized database provisions, airport security, unchecked power to Cabinet officials, extent of the new bureaucracy, concentration of power in the Executive Branch, suspension of the rule that prohibits secret advisory committee meetings, limited public access to information and failure to address border security and immigration issues, such as [the] tracking of foreign students."

Serkes said the provision dealing with HHS reminds her of similar emergency legislation directed at empowering governors.

The Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, WorldNetDaily reported in January, gives governors the power to order the collection of all data and records on citizens, ban firearms, take control of private property and quarantine entire cities, under the auspices of protecting "the health and safety of citizens from epidemics and bioterrorism," according to one analysis.

The version of the bill either under consideration or adopted by the majority of states thus far was drafted in October 2001, just a month after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, by The Center for Law and the Public's Health at Georgetown and Johns Hopkins Universities, in collaboration with several other organizations.

"Just remove 'governor' from the old bill and insert 'secretary' and magically you have a federal bill that was firmly rejected by voters across the country," said Serkes.

Of the homeland security measure, Serkes added: "We need an honest accounting of how this will work. It's too frightening to allow it to be rammed through."

In response to some of the concerns, Senate Democrats are proposing amendments to the bill that would eliminate the liability protections in the House version for vaccine makers. The White House says it supports the amendments to an extent.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said yesterday there are provisions in the bill that "still allow people the right to compensation or the right to sue if they believe they've been harmed by the use of a particular vaccine." But, he said, the provisions "only require that individuals seeking compensation begin by seeking resolution through the Vaccine Injury and Compensation Program."

"If an individual is not satisfied with the award that is offered through that system, then they always have the right to proceed and sue the manufacturer," he said. "But, in short, the vaccine manufacturers will still be subject to liability. We just want to close loopholes, where people can circumvent that process."

[jegs2]

Been there.... Several years ago I had to take a series of six Anthrax shots, and I was under orders to ensure all of our soldiers took them. Fortunately, none of our soldiers refused the shot. I may have had to tell my commander he'd given me an unlawful order had a soldier refused the shot.

[Sea Skimmer]

If there ever were a major smallpox outbreak the world would be truly fucked. At that point civil liberties are going to be the last thing on most peoples minds, suppressing rioting and distrupting food is going to be a wee bit above them.

I don't like this, but in reality with or without it on the books I'd bet something like it would happen, or be passed in an hour if an outbreak showed up. Let hope one doesn’t.

[MKSheppard]

I don't like this, but in reality with or without it on the books I'd bet something like it would happen, or be passed in an hour if an outbreak showed up. Let hope one doesn’t.

The CDC's standing position is that the Smallpox Vaccine Varicella is too dangerous for a mass vaccination and should only be given to persons exposed to smallpox, clinicians treating the patient, linen workers, and as a secondary precaution to Police and Security in the immediate vicinity.

[Sea Skimmer]

I don't like this, but in reality with or without it on the books I'd bet something like it would happen, or be passed in an hour if an outbreak showed up. Let hope one doesn’t.

The CDC's standing position is that the Smallpox Vaccine Varicella is too dangerous for a mass vaccination and should only be given to persons exposed to smallpox, clinicians treating the patient, linen workers, and as a secondary precaution to Police and Security in the immediate vicinity.

Little things like facts rarely have an effect on Congress.

However, the dangers from the vaccine while great from a normal perspective would be far less then what would happen from a general outbreak. As it is we'd be looking a thousand dead from the vaccine. But if the alternative is 20% of the whole population dead, it woundn't really be an issue.

[Stormbringer]

"We're here from the government, and we're here to HELP you..."

The biggest lie in the English language. The government is going to fuck us over, nothing new about that.

[MKSheppard]

However, the dangers from the vaccine while great from a normal perspective would be far less then what would happen from a general outbreak. As it is we'd be looking a thousand dead from the vaccine. But if the alternative is 20% of the whole population dead, it woundn't really be an issue.

If they want to vaccinate me forcibly, they'll have to put up with ME
vaccinating them with 5.56 NATO.

I am reminded of the Joe Haldemann Novel "Forever Peace" in which
the "hero" of the story turned the entire Human race into a bunch
of fucking zombies by installing cyberware into their heads even
though he knows that the process will kill millions of people....

[Mr Bean]

This happens to be buillshit fokes, Read the Entire Statment in the Bill and you see the President First has to Declare a state of Emergancy which can be countermanded by either House or Senate in a Simple Majority Vote and only then can they "Force" Vaccinations, However even then they can't "force" them as they have no implied rights or otherwise to come and GET you for the Shot so to be forced to take the shot you have to first drive into the Center, walk in, Register and THEN they can force you to take the shot......






Also the not being able to sue thing is BULLSHIT, The Language of the Bill is very clearly stated so that PUNITIVE Damages are not possible, Not Conpectory, Just Punitve

Whats Punitve? Those are the Punishment damages, When Edword Rogers sued the Tobbaco Company he got just over a million dolles in Conpectory, and over 37 BILLION in Punitve
Punitive damages are some things like "Emotial Distres" and other touchy feeling things where the burden is simply to prove that somthing the other person did MIGHT have heart the Client and then Jurys can issue a ruleing awarding ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY they want to the Person sueing

Fokes in what day and age did it become possible for people to sue for smoking for Thirty Years and getting a Few Billion Dollers? Billions with a B Fokes, considering this person was a Janitor you can't easily claim he could have made those Billions if he had not been smoking....
Same thing with the Vaccines

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

How is this going to work? Are 2 FBI agents going to stop by your door, and inject you up front?

I won't consider it an abuse of power until we're giving Botox injections and tattoos to random people.

[Tsyroc]

It's not like there aren't manditory vacinations now. They just go about it differently . Like keeping kids out of school if they aren't properly vacinated and stuff like that. In most cases it's more of a threat to everyone when people don't get vacinated because an outbreak might become bad enough that it starts infecting people who were vacinated at one time.

Still, I certainly wouldn't want someone from the government vacinating me with an iffy vacine because some politician, with lots of ties to a certain drug company, panics and decides we all should be vacinated.


As for smallpox, I just barely managed to fall into the tail end of people who were vacinated for smallpox in the U.S.. My sister, who's two years younger wasn't. At this point it's doubtfull that vacination would be much help but who knows?

I also got the free Hepatitis B vacine from work.

[MKSheppard]

It's not like there aren't manditory vacinations now. They just go about it differently . Like keeping kids out of school if they aren't properly vacinated and stuff like that.

Wrong. You can get into school even if you're not vaccinated. Just needs
a doctor's note, which you can get for ANYTHING.

[Tsyroc]

It's not like there aren't manditory vacinations now. They just go about it differently . Like keeping kids out of school if they aren't properly vacinated and stuff like that.

Wrong. You can get into school even if you're not vaccinated. Just needs
a doctor's note, which you can get for ANYTHING.

Sure, (you forget where I am think illegals ) lots of people even fake their vacination records, but technically it's still mandatory just not very well enforced.

[GREAHSIAM]

And what's gonna happen next??.
Make ya give a "Sieg Heil" to Dub-Yuh????.
1984 is coming 18 years late.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

I'm just wndering... why not take the vaccination anyway. Like the Scouts said, Be Prepared...

Taking the vaccination now would seem a hell of a lot better than taking it when you're sick.

[Colonel Olrik]

I'm just wndering... why not take the vaccination anyway. Like the Scouts said, Be Prepared...

Taking the vaccination now would seem a hell of a lot better than taking it when you're sick.

Not true.

A general vaccination of the population always provokes a certain percentage of death, due to adverse reactions to the vaccine. When that number is above the actual number of death from the desease, it's unwise to procceed with the vaccine.

Bear in mind that certain vaccines must be taken annually to prevent infection.

That is why there are several vacines avaiable in the market that some people buy, but are not mandatory.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Hmmm. I see. Yes... I remember now.
I wonder... what exactly is the difference between an immunization and a vaccination?

[phongn]

Hmmm. I see. Yes... I remember now.
I wonder... what exactly is the difference between an immunization and a vaccination?

They essentially mean the same thing. A vaccine is administered (vaccination) to incur an immune-system response, thus protecting you from the actual disease in question (immunization).

[Colonel Olrik]

Hmmm. I see. Yes... I remember now.
I wonder... what exactly is the difference between an immunization and a vaccination?

When you get a new desease, your defense mechanisms adapt to it, and are therefore prepared to fight other infections. Many of the protections, btw, come from our own mother, and we already have them at birth.

Specially if your mother is a medical doctor/nurse.

Vaccines work in the same way. A mild form of the desease is injected in the organism. While a normal dose would be fatal, the organism can adapt to the given dose and you get imunization to that desease. Most of the times. In the worst case, you die from the vaccine.