LOTR - Stravo's Gripes (SPOILERS)

Post by **Dalton** » 2002-12-20 02:25am

Good points Wedge, and welcome to SD.net.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2002-12-20 02:57am

newbie! *thwap* Welcome!

Bug-Eyed Earl · Post by **Bug-Eyed Earl** » 2002-12-20 03:03am

I think the whole telepathic conversation thing was actually in the books, since both Elrond and Galadriel were bearers of two of the Elven rings.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2002-12-20 03:11am

(Entering rant)

Let me just restate what has already been stated, but might have been missed...

SHELOB IS NOT GONE, he has been moved to the begining of the third film (Return of the King).

I mean, for the love of god, Gollom told us that they were going to her before the move ended.

(End rant)

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2002-12-20 04:10am

Sheesh......Some people are never happy, I saw it and honestly was totally blown away by the adaptation of the Book to screen , just like I was with FotR. These are books and story types that do not lend themselves to translation well or easily, if they did there would have been a movie(other than thoes atrocious animated ones) series before this one. Comprimizes had to be made at one point or another, some aspects of the story would really not have translated to well, the sequences with Faramir were altered in order to introduce Gondor and Minas Tirth and to foreshadow Gondors importance in RotK. I think to many Tolkien fans(much like some Trekies and Warsise we all know and love) take it far to seriously, these arent holy texts or anything, they are good books that even their creator was never happy with and thought were tripe. We should all thank our prefered deity that Jackson did these films and not some mainstream hack from hollywood(shudders.......I can only imagine the horror that would happen if B&B ever had tried to do LotR, Arwen in a catsuit, Legolas and Gimli as gay lovers....)

One of the key poins to think about is the fact that these are not seperate movies other than their seperation by time of release, Jackson created one 9 hour movie that he was forced to splinter into 3 parts, wait till all of them are out and can be watched in sequence and I think they will all fall int place nicely.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to RotK with baited breath:-)

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-12-21 12:09am

Sokar,

Yes they aren't sacred texts but when you castrate a character like Jackson did to Faramir it will provoke justified response. I can accept, on some level, almost all of the rest of the movie but Faramir was NOT Faramir, he was a rebuilt Boromir. For that matter having him tempted by the ring and taking Frodo to Osgiliath doesn't do anything, it doesn't reveal anything new and unique about the characters, it doesn't provide any special excitement that Gandalf breaking Saruman's staf couldn't have provided.

Certainly if it was a device to introduce us to Gondor it was the worst idea EVER for doing so. You do not castrate a character simply to introduce a location you will be spending 3 hours in with the next movie. Gondor has already been introduced in FOTR and Boromir's talks about the white city were plenty to let us know that gondor was gonna be a big deal. Faramir could have continued that without ever bringing Frodo to Osgiliath and confronting that Ringwraith in the most contrived scene I've seen in a long time.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2002-12-21 02:07am

I just got back from seeing the movie and I was pissed. Someone said that the movie should be judged on its own merits, not by the book, but the problem is they both tell the same story, and, especially in the Faramir scenes, the original was simply better. I'm not just angry that Faramir was depicted differently, most of the characters are different. What bothers me is that the original characterization of Faramir was better. In the book Faramir's character was very important.. He showed us that the blood of Numenor was not completely spent in the South despite Boromir and Denethor. Jackson gave us no hint that Faramir was in any way wiser or more noble than Boromir. Faramir is supposed to give us an example of wisdom and insight that we will see lacking in Denethor. He is an important contrast to his brother and father. In the movie, that is now ruined.

We can see what the root problem is. Tolkien depicted some good old fashioned heroes who were full of wisdom and courage and rarely faltered. Nowadays, heroes have to be flawed. Hollywood seems convinced that the public will not accept a hero who is unflinching and absolute in his courage. A Théoden who bravely leads his people into battle without hesitation or question just isn't modern enough. A Faramir who easily rejects the temptation of the ring and has only a little bitterness about his father's favoritism isn't human enough. (And I am now expecting some big emotional scene where Faramir confronts Denethor about how he favored Boromir and whines like some post-modern crybaby: "I was never good enough for you daddy.") So all the heroes have to be watered down and "humanized" to make them believable. It's a shame, because I thought that the contrast between the old fashioned heroes of Aragorn and Théoden and the more modernistic hobbits was very nice. Aragorn and others are moved by honor and glory; Frodo is motivated by a smiple love of home and sense of right. Now, Frodo is no more reluctant than anyone else.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-12-21 05:46am

When I saw Gandalf leading the horses down the hill I wondered if the slope was a Single Black Diamond or Double Black? I could have done without that visual effect.

Whoever said that Elrond and Galadriel were speaking telepathically, I got that impression too. I think other people did as well.