Wal Mart! All your shopping needs...Really, all of them

[Marcus Aurelius]

Wow... I thought that the X-files writers (where I first saw this) were just exaggerating or using a plothole. And this is the same retail chain that views selling anything rated 18 as porn?

Actually from what I recall you cannot buy explicit versions of albums there either. They're all edited.

It appears that the Wal Mart executives or at the very least all their conservative customers are secret worshippers of Zardoz. All the talk about Jesus is just a smokescreen to fool the liberals. This a transcript from a secretly recorded hour of worship:

Zardoz: Zardoz speaks to you, His chosen ones.
Exterminators: We are the chosen ones!
Zardoz: You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Exterminators: The Gun is good!
Zardoz: Penis is evil! The Penis shoots Seeds, and makes new Life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots Death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and kill! Zardoz has spoken.

[Simplicius]

Marcus Aurelius; General Schatten: when threads are topical, please try to keep your posts as pertinent as possible.

[[R_H]]

For me it seems so strange that you can just walk into shop and buy firearms and ammo. Here you need a special permit to own a gun. To get it you have to attend training courses and pass exams (comparable to getting a drivers license). If you have done a crime in the past - better forget about owning a gun. When buying an ammo you are allowed to buy only type that your gun uses.
Getting a concealed carry permit is much more difficult, if you are not working in security business there must be good reason why you need it like being threatened or such otherwise no concealed carry permit to you.

For pneumatic guns with more than 12 Joules muzzle energy basically the same rules apply.

Is there anywhere in Europe where getting a concealed carry permit is easy? Here it's a lot easier to own guns and ammo than in Latvia, but it's basically impossible for an individual to get a carry liscense. Are all people with a criminal record prohibited from owning firearms, or just violent criminals?

[Broomstick]

Keep in mind that the US does not have a single uniform gun law. All fifty states have their own individual laws/regulations, and within those states local regions may have more on top of that. This can result in pitfalls - something I can legally own where I live is illegal a mere 20 km down the road in the city of Chicago, for example.

That said, it's pretty uniform, if not universal, that anyone with a felony conviction is forbidden firearms (some place very remote, like the Alaska back country where wild life is a very real threat to people at times, might be an exception). Whether a misdemeanor will interfere with fire arm ownership probably varies from place to place. Some regions allow concealed carry and some do not. Some restrict the type of guns, or the number of guns, or impose other regulations. It's quite a patchwork.

[Darth Wong]

For me it seems so strange that you can just walk into shop and buy firearms and ammo. Here you need a special permit to own a gun.

The fact that guns and ammo are openly displayed in stores does not mean you can buy them without a permit. For example, if we were facing Zombie Doomsday here in Toronto, I would head down to LeBaron Outdoor Products, where they have rifles and shotguns openly displayed in their firearms section, and ammo stored right under the glass counter at the checkout desk. I'd imagine that a semi-auto shotgun would be an ideal anti-Zombie weapon. However, on any day other than Zombie Doomsday, I would need to present proof that I am licensed to purchase a firearm.

[YT300000]

Don't compare it to getting a driver's license. Those are a joke over here in the US and Canada. Europe has real standards, as far as I know.

Canada has similar restrictions on firearms, you have to have a license. There are two kinds, a POL, which is Possession and Ownership License, which allows you to possess a firearm, and a PAL, which is Possession and Acquisition, which allows you to buy more firearms. No concealed carry, though, as far as I know.

There are Canadian concealed carry permits, but you can't get one. AFAIK, there are less than 100 in existence, and they're essentially all given out as political favours and the like; there isn't even a mechanism to apply for one.

[EyebrowZing]

For me it seems so strange that you can just walk into shop and buy firearms and ammo. Here you need a special permit to own a gun. To get it you have to attend training courses and pass exams (comparable to getting a drivers license). If you have done a crime in the past - better forget about owning a gun. When buying an ammo you are allowed to buy only type that your gun uses.

As we like to say: This is America.
Our 'permit' if you will, to purchase firearms is simply an American citizenship. Firearms are basically quite simplistic in operation and use, even with simple, straightforward dangers. Classes and exams for licensing an operator for a multi-thousand pound vehicle that requires two hands, two feet, two eyes, and your full attention for the duration of use, as well as emergency procedures that must be learned in case of mechanical failures or environmental impacts, and 'rules of the road' for interaction in public with your vehicle makes sense.
The common sense of not pointing a gun at anything you're not ready to kill isn't something that strikes me as needing classes, exams, and licensing to accomplish. If people are suddenly too dumb to realize that pointing a gun at yourself or your friend, or running with scissors might be dangerous and have mortal consequences. This, I see as a fault of society's, beginning with younger generation's sudden lack in parenting skills, and even acknowledgment of the responsibilities. No more 'feel good' laws are going to fix any of this.

[Zixinus]

The common sense of not pointing a gun at anything you're not ready to kill isn't something that strikes me as needing classes, exams, and licensing to accomplish. If people are suddenly too dumb to realize that pointing a gun at yourself or your friend, or running with scissors might be dangerous and have mortal consequences.

And what about the mentally crippled, unstable, damaged or the psychotically violent? What about convicted murderers or criminals? There has to be some filters, even if only lose ones.

A yearly exam on basic firearm safety, with a check that you are sound of mind and a brief review in police records that show that you did not join an organised crime syndicate does not seem that outrageous to me.

Also, a good deal of weapons are stolen from legitimate owners because they neglected to buy a safe or even secure their weapons. Stolen weapons are the primary source of black-market weapons that make gang violence bloody and dangerous.

This, I see as a fault of society's, beginning with younger generation's sudden lack in parenting skills, and even acknowledgment of the responsibilities.

Lack of parenting skill? Can you prove that this is the case, that the younger generation has a more profound lack of parenting skills and feelings of responsibility than certain older generations?

[Darth Wong]

More importantly, how is "lack of parenting skill" a reason for the state to stay out of it? Those parenting skills aren't going to magically get better, so we're going to have to think of ways society can reduce their impact.

Far too many Americans cite "poor parenting" as an explanation for crime or bad driving or whatever and then leave it at that, as if they have neatly explained the problem and provided a solution. In reality, they have accomplished neither. Their explanation is so vague as to be useless, and they offer no solutions whatsoever.

[Stark]

The fact that guns and ammo are openly displayed in stores does not mean you can buy them without a permit. For example, if we were facing Zombie Doomsday here in Toronto, I would head down to LeBaron Outdoor Products, where they have rifles and shotguns openly displayed in their firearms section, and ammo stored right under the glass counter at the checkout desk. I'd imagine that a semi-auto shotgun would be an ideal anti-Zombie weapon. However, on any day other than Zombie Doomsday, I would need to present proof that I am licensed to purchase a firearm.

Even in AU there are gun stores full of dozens of shotguns and bolt-action rifles. You just need a lot of paperwork to buy, transport and store them.

The idea that you don't need to train people to point guns at others is frankly the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

The common sense of not pointing a gun at anything you're not ready to kill isn't something that strikes me as needing classes, exams, and licensing to accomplish.

There's much more to firearms safety than "[t]he common sense of not pointing a gun at anything you're not ready to kill."

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Really. Three years ago they were still selling firearms and bows. When and why did they stop?

I don't think they ever did. In 2006 I worked at a Canadian Tire here in Edmonton, and the only guns they sold were the air rifles and pistols (air soft and BB guns). They sold a full selection of ammunition, though, although I think they have scaled the selection down recently.

They do sell the bows, though.

Do you mean you don't think they ever stopped selling firearms and bows? Or that you don't think they ever sold these?

If the latter, then you're just showing your age. Yes, Crappy Tire sold firearms. But as the licensing requirements became more. . .onerous. . .they (and other department stores such as Zellers) stopped selling firearms.

[Broomstick]

Far too many Americans cite "poor parenting" as an explanation for crime or bad driving or whatever and then leave it at that, as if they have neatly explained the problem and provided a solution. In reality, they have accomplished neither. Their explanation is so vague as to be useless, and they offer no solutions whatsoever.

That's because the only reasonable solution - that when the family can't properly guide and parent a child society must step in - is entirely unpalatable to the conservatards, who think that by punishing the ignorant and stupid they will become knowledgeable and smart. What is paramount in action is not the best interests of the children (and society) but rather the preservation of quasi-property rights of parents in regards to their children.

[Phantasee]

Really. Three years ago they were still selling firearms and bows. When and why did they stop?

I don't think they ever did. In 2006 I worked at a Canadian Tire here in Edmonton, and the only guns they sold were the air rifles and pistols (air soft and BB guns). They sold a full selection of ammunition, though, although I think they have scaled the selection down recently.

They do sell the bows, though.

Do you mean you don't think they ever stopped selling firearms and bows? Or that you don't think they ever sold these?

If the latter, then you're just showing your age. Yes, Crappy Tire sold firearms. But as the licensing requirements became more. . .onerous. . .they (and other department stores such as Zellers) stopped selling firearms.

Well, me and RH are pretty much the same age, so since we can recall, I guess. Either way, he's mistaken about three years ago, when I worked at one.


geezer

[His Divine Shadow]

Is there anywhere in Europe where getting a concealed carry permit is easy? Here it's a lot easier to own guns and ammo than in Latvia, but it's basically impossible for an individual to get a carry liscense. Are all people with a criminal record prohibited from owning firearms, or just violent criminals?

Czech republic has CCW. Not sure how easy it is to get.

[His Divine Shadow]

And what about the mentally crippled, unstable, damaged or the psychotically violent? What about convicted murderers or criminals? There has to be some filters, even if only lose ones.

There is the background checks job then, if they are in the registry for any of those things it'll stop a purchase. Ofcourse it's not going to stop a violent psychopath who has yet to do anything violent and get listed for it. Such people get licenses in europe too because nobody has a magic psycho-detector.

A yearly exam sounds outrageous to me. No euro nation has such an invasive and overbearing system, nor do we need it IMO. A solid course in the beginning like most scandinavian nations do it is enough, you don't need to repeat it yearly, these are lessons that stick if drilled hard the first time. And they will only improve with time as you are shooting and working them into your muscle memory.

Also, a good deal of weapons are stolen from legitimate owners because they neglected to buy a safe or even secure their weapons. Stolen weapons are the primary source of black-market weapons that make gang violence bloody and dangerous.

Fortunately buying safes is more and more considered a must amongst younger owners who are more responsible than the older generation they are replacing. Atleast this is the personal observation I have made between younger and older gunowners in america. Widespread implementation of safes does work, in sweden stolen legal guns amounted to less than one percent of guns used in crime.

[Akkleptos]

I wonder if Tesco carry guns in any way whatoever...

Then again, I'd be speaking of a country where:

Britain records 18% fall in gun deaths

By Nigel Morris, Deputy Political Editor

Thursday, 8 January 2009

The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year took place in London, the West Midlands, Manchester or Merseyside, with swathes of the country recording no homicides, suicides or accidental deaths from firearms. One third of the victims were younger than 21 and four of them were female. The Gun Control Network, which campaigns for tougher restrictions on firearms, disclosed the figure, which was a sharp drop on 2007, when 51 gun-related deaths were recorded in England, Wales and Scotland.

Small caveat:

The network said it was worried that "despite the fall in gun crime, disproportionate number of incidents involve teenagers as victims and/or perpetrators". Fifteen people, including six young men, were killed in 2008 in London, which has suffered a spate of gang-related murders.

But down here in Ol' Mexico... pretty much every able-bodied man has a gun at his disposal, even though it's forbidden by law, especially when it comes to arms 9 mm and over (pretty much everything other than .22s for shooting quails and such avians).
Neighbours shooting AK 47s and American M16s at the height of the holidays are not unheard of... Make that, not litterally "heard".

[Formless]

HDS, gun safety is NOT as simple as "don't point it at anything you don't want dead", that's not even the most basic safety rule that exists. "Always treat a gun like its loaded, even when you think its not" is more profound. Then there's rules like "only put your finger on the trigger when you're ready to fire * " and "don't let the barrel get dirt in it" to name a couple off the top of my head. Proper training, including training in how to shoot accurately, makes a shooter less random and liable to hurt someone **, including potentially themselves, by mistake. Reality isn't like the movies or video games, anyone who has actually shot one could tell you that they're much to dangerous to treat so casually.

* This only applies to rifles, as pistol design doesn't leave you much choice.

** Except, naturally, their intended target.

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, gun safety is NOT as simple as "don't point it at anything you don't want dead", its not even the most basic safety rule that exists. "Always treat a gun like its loaded, even when you think its not" is more profound. Then there's rules like "only put your finger on the trigger when you're ready to fire * " and "don't let the barrel get dirt in it" to name a couple off the top of my head. Proper training, including training in how to shoot accurately, makes a shooter less random and liable to hurt someone **, including potentially themselves, by mistake. Reality isn't like the movies or video games, anyone who has actually shot one could tell you that they're much to dangerous to treat so casually.

* This only applies to rifles, as pistol design doesn't leave you much choice.

** Except, naturally, their intended target.

What the hell are you talking about? And do you know who you are talking to? I own 8 guns, I've owned guns since I was a little kid, I've attented multiple training and safety classes over the years as well as having been in the military and I am now an active reservist. I don't even know why you aimed that rant at me?

[Formless]

Then why the fuck did you say something as retarded as:

The common sense of not pointing a gun at anything you're not ready to kill isn't something that strikes me as needing classes, exams, and licensing to accomplish.

Please, explain that to me, because frankly if you gave a random dude on the street a gun with this mindset, I'd call you crazy.

[His Divine Shadow]

Buy glasses, then apologize.

[Formless]

*cleans glasses he's already wearing* Whoops! Sorry, wrong poster.

[His Divine Shadow]

Np problems. I am not against safety classes before owning guns, and having safes to put them in. However I draw the line at having them being required over and over again as was suggested (and as close as every year to boot), it would not gain anything but more paperwork and buerocracy for a problem that is pretty much non-existant in our (scandinavian) countries.

[Formless]

On the other hand, going through a test every so often helps ensure you don't get rusty or careless. Even if they aren't required, it sounds like a wise thing to do anyway every few years.

[His Divine Shadow]

Every time I go to a range is a test. If people do misstakes they are corrected by others, sometimes loudly. Even if I am there by myself I handle the guns as I would if it was filled with people. At SRA events it's even more strict, just accidentially pointing your gun outside the established safe zone will result in an angry judge and you being disqualified. The system as is, is a postivie feedback system through social interaction with others.

Aside from that I find it hard to get rusty after a while, the more you shoot the more you work into muscle memory and that'll last a lifetime.

Besides you gotta view this from a govt. viewpoint, what they can realistically do is require a serious effort up front. It'll be difficult and costly to keep it up and might just generate resentment from shooters instead, in my opinion an important part of the restrictions is that their utility should be obvious. And everyone but the insane see the utility of the safety courses in place currently. Going every year for a repeat course would be anannoying hassle after the second or third time that you would gain little from.