peaceniks go on rampage, destroy 9/11 memorial in California

[Sriad]

Hector, Next, Lets try this again: I am a Libertarian by heart. The less gov involvement in my life the better. That being said WTF do I care if the NSA decides that I am a national secruity risk and needs to tap my phone.

I don't care if you care if the NSA decides to tap your phone, I care that I care if the NSA decides to tap my phone. I would be seriously pissed off if one of my friends did it, and I sure as fuck would be if the Feds did it.

If you think the gov has nothing better to do than care about community watch programs and listen to phone conversations than you need a little Black Helicopter Therapy.

Last year the police department of Denver admited that they had been keeping profiles of thousands of people who were active on left wing topics. A friend of mine was pulled over by the police and harrased for half an hour for no reason at all when she was leaving an anarchist safe house in Denver. The police called her a traitor for protesting, and all kinds of horrible things that I can't quote because I don't remember what they were. You may be aware of a little organization known as the FBI that has files on some tens of millions of Americans... What I'm saying is that some significant parts of the gov think that spying on people like me is a very good idea.

Ideology is what this comes down to. Some of us are willing to put up with some BS wating lines at airports or a file on us somewhere in Maryland for the security that may or may not come with it. We just need to decide which side of the fence you sit on. Do you trust the gov to do the right thing or not??

The gov's track record on doing the "right thing" is something less than stellar. 'Trust' is for folks who don't care about preventing the next Dresden/ McCarthy/ Watergate/ Iran-Contra/ fuckupofyourchoicehere.

Hector.. My point on the visit to NY was not to diminish your feelings but to maybe make it a little more real. I was living in Boston at time. I went down to Ny a week later 9/18 I will never forget the sight the sounds and the smells. I will give up some personal freedoms, to advert the next one..

Okay, I think it's super that you are willing to give up some of your personal freedom to protect yourself. I guess you know more about the Libertarian party than I, but I don't know that the rest of them would agree with you.

[Cap'n Hector]

Hector, Next, Lets try this again: I am a Libertarian by heart. The less gov involvement in my life the better. That being said WTF do I care if the NSA decides that I am a national secruity risk and needs to tap my phone.

The FBI has show great willingness to abuse these powers in the past, and I don't think they've gotten that much more responsible. If they have a larger file on Einstein (1,427 pages) than on Ted Bundy (257 pages), Vito Genovese (102 pages), and Baby Face Nelson (224 pages) combined, how likely are they to be careful in who they suspect?

If you think the gov has nothing better to do than care about community watch programs and listen to phone conversations than you need a little Black Helicopter Therapy.

Well, they've had the time to watch baseball, listen to music, go to art galleries, and read science journals. If they had time to do all that, then I'd wonder about what else they might do. Having seen serious abuses of power by the FBI in the past, I don't trust them to not abuse it in the future.

Ideology is what this comes down to. Some of us are willing to put up with some BS wating lines at airports or a file on us somewhere in Maryland for the security that may or may not come with it. We just need to decide which side of the fence you sit on.

I've got no problem with airport lines. They've had them in Europe for years, and should have had them here. The issue at hand is that 9/11 is being used to institute policies that allow an unprecedented level of privacy invasion. Remember the paranoid fear that the 'Net was being watched? Well, my father (an exec at Yotta Yotta*) has seen a system in use that has been monitoring global internet patterns, and has apparantly detected probes on US urban control computers (sewage, water, etc.). I don't have proof to link to.

Do you trust the gov to do the right thing or not??

No. I don't.

Hector.. My point on the visit to NY was not to diminish your feelings but to maybe make it a little more real. I was living in Boston at time. I went down to Ny a week later 9/18 I will never forget the sight the sounds and the smells. I will give up some personal freedoms, to advert the next one..

As I said earlier, I almost lost my father to 9/11, and thought I had for three days. I lost two friends to 9/11 itself, and I've also lost friends to other terrorist attacks before 9/11. Both of them were bystanders who moved to help wounded, and who were subsequently shot.

Based on this understanding, I'm not willing to give up personal privacy without a very good reason. My attiude didn't change after Oklahoma City, and it didn't after any of my friends died, and it wouldn't have if my father had died.

*Mentioned to explain his ability to access, not to increase my credibility.

[Col. Crackpot]

here's an update. the first arrest has been made.
throws a little water on the CIA/NSA theory.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Storie ... 53,00.html

[theski]

Sriad, About phone tapping, do you think that belonging to knowing people that are "Anarchists" your word not mine. Would not send up flags not just to the Gov but to most people. I am not going debate the plus or minus of that word,(it would turn into flames real fast). The Farther you drift either right or left, you attract attention if you want it of not. There is not a Gov in the world (sorry democratic or republic based) that does not have files on citizen that they consider a risk.. Thats Life.. My whole point to the post was to respond to Hector on the 9/11 topic. I respect your right to protest, but just remember how you got that right. The blood of many soliders died to give you that right..

[theski]

Hector, Morning, My answer to the Government spys on us is " how do this affect you on a daily basis" please someone tell me.. I belive it does not. Just my opinion..