Safety issues may prompt county police to fire Beretta
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Safety issues may prompt county police to fire Beretta
Sep. 11, 2002
Photo courtesy of Beretta USA
Montgomery County Police is considering replacing its decade-old Beretta handguns with lightweight plastic Glocks because of safety concerns and an aging stock.
Nine Berettas failed to fire between March and July. The problems prompted Chief Charles A. Moose in June to set up an internal committee to look into the issue.
The committee recommended last month that the officers be equipped with .40 caliber handguns from Glock Inc. USA, an Austrian-owned company increasingly popular with law enforcement agencies, said Lt. Robert Bolesta, the committee chairman. Bolesta is deputy commander of the police's Training and Education Division.
The Glocks, along with holsters and magazine holders, will cost roughly $500,000 to $750,000, Bolesta said. Final cost estimates are still being worked out and ultimately must be approved by the County Council.
Eight of the nine "fail-to-fire" incidents took place during routine qualifying courses at the police department's firing range in Rockville or its outdoor facility in Poolesville. A ninth failure occurred as an officer was trying to kill a wounded deer, said Assistant Police Chief John A. King.
"I know this is a very serious officer-safety issue that requires and demands immediate attention," Moose wrote in his biweekly bulletin to the department in late July. "I do not want to create panic or inspire a lack of confidence in the Beretta. But I want you to know this effort is real."
The concerns
Bolesta said the firing problems apparently were caused by broken locking blocks, which fix the barrel in place while firing and absorb the recoil; broken trigger springs; and "high mileage."
The department has about 960 9mm Berettas and about 210 slimmer Smith & Wessons for undercover detectives; the committee recommends replacing both with the Glock.
"I don't want to point fingers at Beretta," Bolesta said, saying the weapons are nearing the end of their life expectancy, estimated at about 17,000 to 22,000 fired rounds. "But it's time to get a new weapon."
The Montgomery County Sheriff's Office is also concerned about similar problems with the Berettas its 115 sheriff's deputies carry, said Capt. Rodney Brown, who oversees administrative services.
"Naturally, it is a concern when you have equipment failure when it relates to public safety," Brown said.
Moose is expected to discuss replacing the Berettas soon with County Executive Douglas M. Duncan (D) and the County Council, Bolesta said.
"We would expect the department would make a decision after making side-by- side comparisons," said Jeff Reh, vice general manager at Beretta USA in Accokeek in Prince George's County.
"Purchasing sidearms from Glock will not keep or put jobs in Maryland," he added. Glock's U.S. operations are based in Smyrna, Ga.
"The Beretta has a reputation for high reliability, malfunctioning an average of only once every 17,000 rounds," Reh said.
Reh said he had heard that Moose's personal preference is for the Glock.
"I have seen situations in the past where a new chief comes in and has a preference for a product and a gun acceptable for years is suddenly not acceptable," he said. "I don't know whether that is the case here."
That's not the case, Bolesta said. Moose showed no preferences even when he was asked and told Bolesta that he would go along with the committee's recommendation. The committee chose the Glock for many reasons, including its attractive 40,000-round warranty, Bolesta said.
Reh said he was not aware of MCP's recent problems with Beretta, adding that the company is alerted only when an agency has major problems.
A recurring problem
This is not the first time that Montgomery County Police has had concerns about its sidearms.
In 1996, after 57 of its Beretta 92D Centurions failed to fire because of broken locking blocks, the county negotiated with Beretta to have them replaced for free with the current model, the Beretta 92 Brigadier, according to a 1996 report in The Montgomery Journal.
Reh faulted the county at that time, saying police used the wrong ammunition.
The original 10-year or 10,000-round warranty on the handguns, purchased for $308,000 in 1992, expired in July, Bolesta said.
Police have not been able to figure out how many rounds have been fired from the weapons because the department has not tracked them, Bolesta said. The committee is recommending setting up a database to track weapons and rounds fired.
Police also have been inspecting the Berettas more frequently since mid-July as a precaution.
A range of choices
The 9mm Beretta's popularity soared in 1985 after the Maryland company landed a $75 million contract with the Department of Defense. Soon the semiautomatic jumped to the silver screen, with Mel Gibson brandishing a Beretta in 1987's "Lethal Weapon" and Bruce Willis following suit in 1988's "Die Hard."
Law enforcement agencies eagerly sought the handgun. Maryland State Police replaced its .357s with the Beretta in 1988 and Prince George's County Police -- under County Executive Parris N. Glendening -- turned to the Accokeek company the same year.
Neither State Police nor Prince George's Police has experienced problems with Berettas, the agencies' spokesmen said.
Rockville's 50 officers use Swiss-made Sig-Sauer handguns, police Chief T.N. Treschuk said. "We are fortunate -- knock on wood -- that we have no problems," he said.
The City of Gaithersburg also uses Sig-Sauer semiautomatics for its 35 officers, said Don Pike, the city's administrative police director.
In Portland, Ore., where Moose served as police chief before he came to Montgomery County in 1999, police spokesman Officer Henry Groepper sings the praises of the Glock.
The 32-year police veteran said the department's 1,050 sworn officers have carried Glocks for more than a decade.
"I'm not selling Glocks, but I've seen them dropped and banged, and they still shoot great," Groepper said. "They are high-tech plastic but function very well."
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1/3 of the US police forces are scrapping or banning SIG's another 1/3 Glocks and the last 1/3 Beretta's. My conclusion is that either all suck or all have poor quality control. Clearly OICW is the only solution..
Anyway my local police department had the right idea, Issue every Cop an M16 or G36 while keeping some SKS's at the station in reserve. This is in addition to SIG's and shotguns of course. Plenty of reliable firepower on hand at all times. This is a 8-man department mind you, they have more rifles then men and a marked car for everyone as well thanks to massive over funding.
Anyway my local police department had the right idea, Issue every Cop an M16 or G36 while keeping some SKS's at the station in reserve. This is in addition to SIG's and shotguns of course. Plenty of reliable firepower on hand at all times. This is a 8-man department mind you, they have more rifles then men and a marked car for everyone as well thanks to massive over funding.
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When the Glock 18 (either that or the 20) was introduced to the police in Tasmania the number of NDs (negligent discharges) went through the roof. I second the motion that we equip all police with these puppies (http://www.heckler-koch.de/html/english ... index.html or http://www.heckler-koch.de/html/english ... index.html) and give them c-mags too, you can NEVER have enough ammo.
I think it would make traffic stops a whole helluva lot more interesting too.
*edit* and these babies (http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm) as sidearms.
I think it would make traffic stops a whole helluva lot more interesting too.
*edit* and these babies (http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm) as sidearms.
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That's a lot of weapons for police duty. Is this kind of arsenal normal for American police deparments, because to me it seems a bit of an overkill. Just wondering, what is the most commonly used sidearm by the police in USA?Sea Skimmer wrote:Anyway my local police department had the right idea, Issue every Cop an M16 or G36 while keeping some SKS's at the station in reserve. This is in addition to SIG's and shotguns of course. Plenty of reliable firepower on hand at all times. This is a 8-man department mind you, they have more rifles then men and a marked car for everyone as well thanks to massive over funding.
In the olden days it was Colts, Colt Revolers and Colt Hand-guns but gradualy the Police have been switching over to other side armsThat's a lot of weapons for police duty. Is this kind of arsenal normal for American police deparments, because to me it seems a bit of an overkill. Just wondering, what is the most commonly used sidearm by the police in USA?
Like Berretas/Brownings
The most heavly armed memebers of the Police force the SWAT teams usaly carrys Mp5s or UMPs with the snipers carrying whatever they prefer with the side arms tradiontaly being Browning's
And in todays world yes they NEED to be more heavly armored, Witness the Cal Robbery four years back where Cops had to commander guns from a HK33s and Mp5s wearing full Kevlar robed a bank and nearly got away because the Police side Arms could not pentrate the kevlar suits they where wearing and they where spending ammo so freely as to make it impossible for them to get head-shots in there
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I'm not sure what the drill is with police gun issue in the US . I thought Every department had its own standard issue weapon then if a cop wanted to carry something else that was fine. Is that what happens or isn't it.
Here in the U.K are police seem to be doing alright for guns.
If they need assault rifles they can get HK G3's or Steyer AUG's. For shotguns, they get the SPAS 12. For smg's they get the HK MP5 and for sidearms they get the Glock 17.
Here in the U.K are police seem to be doing alright for guns.
If they need assault rifles they can get HK G3's or Steyer AUG's. For shotguns, they get the SPAS 12. For smg's they get the HK MP5 and for sidearms they get the Glock 17.
Last edited by Dirty Harry on 2002-09-19 08:25am, edited 1 time in total.
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Okay, thanks! I've seen the video clip of that event and it looks like it's straight from the movie "Heat".Mr Bean wrote:In the olden days it was Colts, Colt Revolers and Colt Hand-guns but gradualy the Police have been switching over to other side arms Like Berretas/Brownings
The most heavly armed memebers of the Police force the SWAT teams usaly carrys Mp5s or UMPs with the snipers carrying whatever they prefer with the side arms tradiontaly being Browning's
And in todays world yes they NEED to be more heavly armored, Witness the Cal Robbery four years back where Cops had to commander guns from a HK33s and Mp5s wearing full Kevlar robed a bank and nearly got away because the Police side Arms could not pentrate the kevlar suits they where wearing and they where spending ammo so freely as to make it impossible for them to get head-shots in there
The police armament is pretty much the same here in Finland as well. Glock-17 became the standard sidearm in the late eighties, replacing S&Ws and Walther pistols. Just a couple years ago almost all shotguns were removed from the patrol cars, replaced with semi-automatic MP5s. The national SWAT/CT unit still uses the MP5A3, however. I believe the sniper rifle used by our Police is the domestic made Sako TRG-40, or some other TRG model.
They might also have assault rifles, but they are used very rarely if ever.
over here in germany the standard hand gun is the walther ppk or the pp. if they need heavier gear they usually have mp5. i´ve never seen a german cop armed heavier than an mp5 (even mp5 are extremely rare) nor have i ever seen one with a shot gun like a pump action or sth. special forces like the rocking gsg9 excluded of course. they get what ever they want.
The Glock 17 also became standard police issue for where I live about 5-10 years ago. At the time there was a ton of media attention and reports of how the bullets would over-penetrate and put holes thru innocent bystanders. Years later and I haven't heard of any such cases. Personally I'd prefer H&K USP Tac's in .45 ACP, but hey, whatever works. As long as the bad guys get killed dead good it's fine by me.
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The Glock-22 .40S&W is fast becoming the standard police side arm. I have one and its a really nice gun. The Glock-22 holds just as many rounds as the Beretta-92F, but is a more powerful bullet. However the Beretta-92F is still a good gun. It has a very nice design, and a superior saftey system. You can decock the gun and put it on saftey. The Glock has no saftey, no decocking. Once that bullet is chambered you can pull the trigger and it fires, its that simple. It is also absurd that that many Berettas failed like that. Anyone with half a brain takes care of their pistol AND has proper gunsmiths check the gun every few years. It is the fault of the police department for having lost the pistols and they are trying to get away with buy the Glock because you can abuse it without it breaking as often. To me it indicates that police department is lazy. I would hate to see the conditition of their SWAT weapons.
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