Will Baseball ever strike out?

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Durandal
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Post by Durandal »

Chardok wrote:OPINION:
Baseball sucks. It's slow. and it's stupid. Round ball, round bat, hit it square. I can't sit through a full game. Strategy? Bah.
football is like a battle! Flanking, deep bombs, artillery! YEAH! Much more fun, IMHO.
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Uh yeah ... thanks.
Patrick Degan wrote:No, don't think so. The soccer player would be almost exclusively a distance runner except in the red zone in toward the goal. There is no play in soccer, that I've ever observed, that is anywhere akin to the sprints required in baseball.
On a counter-attack, soccer players sprint their asses off, especially mid-fielders. If you've got the ball at some point half-way between the midfield and the top of the penalty box, you'll be sprinting your ass off to set up a decent play, or your team will lose the ball.
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Post by BoredShirtless »

Patrick Degan wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote: Premier League, Bundesliga, Seri-A, Tri-Nations, Mexican League, UEFA, 1998 and 2002 World Cup, and our short-lived local Class-A minor league franchise. Your point being...?
So you've watched UEFA games, yet you didn't know soccer players can sprint 27 metres or more. Well I guess there's only so much you can get from watching soccer then. Ever played it before?
My my, aren't we in a bit of a snit?
No. Are you? Do you usually get threatened when people ask you questions? I just wanted to see how exactly you're forming your opinions.
Yes, the full-field TV coverage was quite thorough and I am well aware of how the players move on the field. That was not my point.
No, in fact you aren't aware or you wouldn't have said soccer players only sprint in the red zone. And your point was soccer players are akin to distance runners, which is absolutely wrong.
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Post by Chardok »

Durandal wrote:Uh yeah ... thanks.
Errm....uh...err...jeepers....yer...errm...welcome.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

BoredShirtless wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote: So you've watched UEFA games, yet you didn't know soccer players can sprint 27 metres or more. Well I guess there's only so much you can get from watching soccer then. Ever played it before?
My my, aren't we in a bit of a snit?
No. Are you? Do you usually get threatened when people ask you questions? I just wanted to see how exactly you're forming your opinions.
It seems that it is you who feels threatened by an opinion which contradicts his own.
Yes, the full-field TV coverage was quite thorough and I am well aware of how the players move on the field. That was not my point.
No, in fact you aren't aware or you wouldn't have said soccer players only sprint in the red zone.
Then we have a fundamental difference of view; I tend to look upon plays close to the goal to be different, in terms of actual consequence in the scoring opportunity/defence, than putting oneself in position when the overall formation shifts with change-of-possesion.
And your point was soccer players are akin to distance runners, which is absolutely wrong.
In terms of the requirements for downfield coverage, they are much moreso than baseball players ever have to be.
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Post by Tribun »

Here in Germany, Baseball is a great mystery. It is impossible here to understand, what the Americans do find so great about it. Also, nearly nobody understands the rules and only very few people know them.
I myself didn't understand this sport.
Must be, because Germany is a soccer land......
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Post by haas mark »

Tribun wrote:Here in Germany, Baseball is a great mystery. It is impossible here to understand, what the Americans do find so great about it. Also, nearly nobody understands the rules and only very few people know them.
I myself didn't understand this sport.
Must be, because Germany is a soccer land......
As an American, I find a couple American sports difficult to understand. [shrugs]

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Post by BoredShirtless »

Patrick Degan wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote: My my, aren't we in a bit of a snit?
No. Are you? Do you usually get threatened when people ask you questions? I just wanted to see how exactly you're forming your opinions.
It seems that it is you who feels threatened by an opinion which contradicts his own.
Why do you say that? Because I asked you "what soccer games have you seen?" or "ever played it before?". I just wanted to see where you're coming from.
Yes, the full-field TV coverage was quite thorough and I am well aware of how the players move on the field. That was not my point.
No, in fact you aren't aware or you wouldn't have said soccer players only sprint in the red zone.
Then we have a fundamental difference of view; I tend to look upon plays close to the goal to be different, in terms of actual consequence in the scoring opportunity/defence, than putting oneself in position when the overall formation shifts with change-of-possesion.
Sure it's different in the red zone because both the defense and attack are more desperate, but that doesn't mean they're not sprinting their hearts out when returning to their positions, attacking/defending outside the red zone, setting up plays, marking and playing with the ball.
And your point was soccer players are akin to distance runners, which is absolutely wrong.
In terms of the requirements for downfield coverage, they are much moreso than baseball players ever have to be.
Look, I'll cut to the chase. Do you still maintain your original stance that soccer players sprint full bore only when they're in the red zone?
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Post by Kuja »

Soccer players sprint depending on how close they are to the ball, but they must also keep moving at other times as well, especially the offense, which is moving for virtually the entire game.

IME, soccer is closer to long-distance running with bursts of speed akin to sprinting. The offense must be in motion almost constantly, otherwise they will be unable to drive towards the goal. The defense doesn't have to move quite as much, but they are also required to defend a fairly large amount of territory, which means that they must begin moving to intercept the ball controller as soon as possible.

Soccer players do frequently run all out, but this is mostly confined to running after a loose ball or trying to stop an opposing player. If soccer players were to cosntantly sprint, they would be unable to properly control the ball.
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Post by BoredShirtless »

Nobody is saying they sprint all the time! But if that was just a general point, then yeah sure.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

i find it funny when people say that football players only sprint when in the red zone.

I watch professional football everyweekend, i see more sprinting in the mid field than anywhere else.
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Post by haas mark »

Zac Naloen wrote:i find it funny when people say that football players only sprint when in the red zone.

I watch professional football everyweekend, i see more sprinting in the mid field than anywhere else.
Funny, cos I would have thought the same thing, even though I don't watch it that often..

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Post by Zac Naloen »

in the 18 yard area there is very little sprinting... theres lots of sliding jumping and diving... but not much sprining...

the sprinting ALWAYS happens in the midfield and down the wings so that the ball can be kicked across the face of the goal for the striker to either volley into the goal, fake a bad tackle and get a penalty, or head it into the goal... sometimes this doesn't work and the ball gets caught on the otherside, at which point the ball gets lobbed back into the area where there is a free for all between the strikers defenders and the goal keeper to get the ball.

the only time sprining happens in the 18 yard area is if the sprint started in the other half of the pitch as part of a counter attack.
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Post by ReinnResauq »

Darth Wong wrote: As one who is a natural sprinter but a poor distance runner, I suppose I have a warped perspective on this, but I feel that the stamina required for sustained exertion is a much more impressive measure of athletic ability than the ability to put on the occasional sprinter's burst.
After months of trying to increase my endurance, that's very much true. I can run the 100 in 10.3 or so but my fastest mile time was 8 something.

It's what, 100 feet between each base? There isn't a baseball game on, does anyone know how fast an average runner goes between the bases? I'm guessing the fastest pull off about 3 seconds or so.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

BoredShirtless wrote:Look, I'll cut to the chase. Do you still maintain your original stance that soccer players sprint full bore only when they're in the red zone?
My point of view is more that, in comparative terms, because soccer is a game in which both position and possession can change almost on a minute-by-minute basis and in which the flow of play is continuous (barring the inevitable stoppages for penalties, injuries, and the ball going out of bounds), that the full-bore sprint which is crucial to scoring/defence is what occurs within the red zone, when mere seconds seperate the execution of the play at the goal. That is where I see the pressure to be on time and on position at its height, as opposed to the changes of formation which occur within the overall context of the game.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

ReinnResauq wrote:It's what, 100 feet between each base? There isn't a baseball game on, does anyone know how fast an average runner goes between the bases? I'm guessing the fastest pull off about 3 seconds or so.
Close. It's 90 ft. on the base-paths, and in a stealing situation or a squeeze-bunt, the runner can have as little as four seconds to make the base safely or be thrown out.
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Post by BoredShirtless »

Patrick Degan wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Look, I'll cut to the chase. Do you still maintain your original stance that soccer players sprint full bore only when they're in the red zone?
My point of view is more that, in comparative terms, because soccer is a game in which both position and possession can change almost on a minute-by-minute basis and in which the flow of play is continuous (barring the inevitable stoppages for penalties, injuries, and the ball going out of bounds), that the full-bore sprint which is crucial to scoring/defence is what occurs within the red zone, when mere seconds seperate the execution of the play at the goal. That is where I see the pressure to be on time and on position at its height, as opposed to the changes of formation which occur within the overall context of the game.
Patrick, you're confusing pressure with intensity; the pressure is greater for everyone in the red zone, but that doesn't mean they are any less intense outside it.

Example, the left midfielder gets the ball but has no marker, so decides to take it up himself, out of his half. Not only him but his now panicking assigned-marker will be sprinting as hard as they can do to do their thing. They aren't in the red zone.

Example, when the fullbacks of the attacking team are up, they usually hang around the half way line. If the defending team suddenly gets the ball, the fullbacks may have to sprint full bore back to their positions while the ball is still in the now attacking teams own half.

Still intense, and they're still sprinting as fast as they can; but not as much pressure.
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Post by Darth Wong »

If you give somebody a lot of rest periods (as in baseball), he can push himself harder during those brief bursts of exertion. A more sustained activity forces him to pace himself. But the overall use of energy will be higher with a greater sustained activity than periods of rest interspersed with periods of intense exertion.
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Post by BoredShirtless »

Darth Wong wrote:If you give somebody a lot of rest periods (as in baseball), he can push himself harder during those brief bursts of exertion. A more sustained activity forces him to pace himself. But the overall use of energy will be higher with a greater sustained activity than periods of rest interspersed with periods of intense exertion.
That's logical, however some situations require soccer players to expend more energy then they can really afford, for the good of the team. Not to say that they don't pace themselves; they do. But I said from the very beginning here that they can do full bore sprints over 27 metres numerous times; not all the time. Thus matching baseball.
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Post by SAMAS »

I'm suprised no one else has posted this already:
George Carlin wrote:Baseball is different from any other sport, very different. For instance, in most sports you score points or goals; in baseball you score runs. In most sports the ball, or object, is put in play by the offensive team; in baseball the defensive team puts the ball in play, and only the defense is allowed to touch the ball. In fact, in baseball if an offensive player touches the ball intentionally, he's out; sometimes unintentionally, he's out.

Also: in football,basketball, soccer, volleyball, and all sports played with a ball, you score with the ball and in baseball the ball prevents you from scoring.

In most sports the team is run by a coach; in baseball the team is run by a manager. And only in baseball does the manager or coach wear the same clothing the players do. If you'd ever seen John Madden in his Oakland Raiders uniform,you'd know the reason for this custom.

Now, I've mentioned football. Baseball & football are the two most popular spectator sports in this country. And as such, it seems they ought to be able to tell us something about ourselves and our values.

I enjoy comparing baseball and football:

Baseball is a nineteenth-century pastoral game.
Football is a twentieth-century technological struggle.

Baseball is played on a diamond, in a park.The baseball park!
Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.

Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying.

In football you wear a helmet.
In baseball you wear a cap.

Football is concerned with downs - what down is it?
Baseball is concerned with ups - who's up?

In football you receive a penalty.
In baseball you make an error.

In football the specialist comes in to kick.
In baseball the specialist comes in to relieve somebody.

Football has hitting, clipping, spearing, piling on, personal fouls, late hitting and unnecessary roughness.
Baseball has the sacrifice.

Football is played in any kind of weather: rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog...
In baseball, if it rains, we don't go out to play.

Baseball has the seventh inning stretch.
Football has the two minute warning.

Baseball has no time limit: we don't know when it's gonna end - might have extra innings.
Football is rigidly timed, and it will end even if we've got to go to sudden death.

In baseball, during the game, in the stands, there's kind of a picnic feeling; emotions may run high or low, but there's not too much unpleasantness.
In football, during the game in the stands, you can be sure that at least twenty-seven times you're capable of taking the life of a fellow human being.

And finally, the objectives of the two games are completely different:

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!
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