Hornblower (HMS Lydia) vs Aubery (HMS Suprise)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-30 09:40pm

As the title says, Captain Horatio Hornblower of H. M. Frigate Lydia is sent out to sink Captain Jack Aubery of H.M. Frigate Suprise. They wind up meeting on a clear (but moderately windy) day in the South Atlantic.

Which Captain survives?

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-11-30 09:45pm

Oooh. Tough.

But Hornblower has much more powerful character shields. So, he wins.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-30 09:46pm

Ugh, no character shield nonsense. (Though personally I think Jack's might work better.)

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-11-30 10:01pm

Its still a tough call. Hornblower has shown much greater tactical genius though, so I will still have to give it to him.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2003-11-30 11:17pm

This is probably gonna sound dumb...

What are the specs on the ships? Or are they identical vessels? Also, what is the traning level of both crews?

Based on commander alone, and assuming same vessel class/type, equally veteran crews, and no random acts of fate/God/etc. I would say Hornblower's Lydia would win.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-30 11:50pm

What are the specs on the ships? Or are they identical vessels? Also, what is the traning level of both crews?

H.M. Frigate Lydia: She's a new built heavy frigate with an armament of 38 guns (12 18-pounders and 26 12-pounders as I recall). Her top speed is around 9 knots ordinarily and she's a fairly good sailer. Her crews the usual mix of press gang fodder and able seamen; slightly understrength as I recall but a good crew none the less.

H.M. Frigate Suprise: And older lighter frigate an armament of 24 guns (mostly eighteens as I recall). She's an excellent sailing vessel and she has a top speed of eleven to twelve knots. She's likewise got a good crew but isn't understrength.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-12-01 12:36am

I do hope I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that all these statistics and vs battles are being plotted for 17th century naval warfare.

Of course, M&C was a damn good movie...

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-12-01 12:41am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:I do hope I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that all these statistics and vs battles are being plotted for 17th century naval warfare.

Of course, M&C was a damn good movie...

Wait until Troy comes out, and we all start sitting around comparing a Trireme fleet to a squadron of Quinquiremes (sp)...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-01 12:48am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:I do hope I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that all these statistics and vs battles are being plotted for 17th century naval warfare.

You should have seen some of the naval matchups and resulting debates warships1 has produced in the past. PT boats vs. the Spanish Armada, that was fun.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-12-01 12:53am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:I do hope I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that all these statistics and vs battles are being plotted for 17th century naval warfare.
You should have seen some of the naval matchups and resulting debates warships1 has produced in the past. PT boats vs. the Spanish Armada, that was fun.

So, how many PT boats would it take to sink the Spanish Armada?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-01 12:57am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:I do hope I'm not the only one finding it hilarious that all these statistics and vs battles are being plotted for 17th century naval warfare.

Of course, M&C was a damn good movie...

Egh, I've been watching Hornblower and just saw Master and Commander.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-01 12:57am

fgalkin wrote: So, how many PT boats would it take to sink the Spanish Armada?

The thread specified six American ones and the consensus was that they could sink at least half the Armada before running out of ammunition. Things then started to get silly with virus modifications, like what happens if the PT boats are out of fuel and must raise sail for the battle.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-12-01 01:11am

Also consider who Hornblower's teacher was: Edward Pelliew, one of the Royal Navy's best frigate captains during the wars with France.

BTW, be on the lookout: two new Hornblower movies are airing on A&E this week.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-01 01:16am

Patrick Degan wrote:Also consider who Hornblower's teacher was: Edward Pelliew, one of the Royal Navy's best frigate captains during the wars with France.

True to an extent , but there's only so much that can be done about tactics on an open ocean against a frigate that's more manuverable and faster.

Patrick Degan wrote:BTW, be on the lookout: two new Hornblower movies are airing on A&E this week.

Already set the VCR and ordered the DVDs.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2003-12-01 01:28am

The Lydia will win the battle, despite the speed and experience advantage the Suprise has.

2 reasons for this: (as I see it)

1) Lydia may be slower, but if the Suprise gets caught in a broadside, she's screwed, especially due to her lighter hull. The Lydia can take more fire with her heavier hull and the reduced broadside of the Suprise.

2) The lower speed and less experienced crew would certainly reduce rate of fire and overall DC efficiency, thereby reducing the advantage Hornblower would have with a heavier ship with more massive broadside. Still pitched in favor of the Lydia unless Suprise's captain either got lucky, or properly used his ship's speed advantage. This is due to the Lydia's heavier hull being able to take more damage.

This is as I see it, it may be flawed, so correct me if it is.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-01 07:09am

Have they finally shown all the Hornblower films on A&E now, Stormie or are there still a couple left? I saw the ads on IMDb.com for them this month.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-01 10:13am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Have they finally shown all the Hornblower films on A&E now, Stormie or are there still a couple left? I saw the ads on IMDb.com for them this month.

They show them tomorrow and Wednesday.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-01 10:18am

This is as I see it, it may be flawed, so correct me if it is.

No, it's essentially correct though Jack Aubery can be counted on to handle his ship well. In a battle between frigates that'd count for a lot.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-12-01 04:03pm

Stormbringer wrote:
This is as I see it, it may be flawed, so correct me if it is.
No, it's essentially correct though Jack Aubery can be counted on to handle his ship well. In a battle between frigates that'd count for a lot.

A lot would matter on who has the wind to their advatnage at the start of the battle. M&C did note (I haven't seen but a few minutes of Hornblower I'm saddened to admit) very correctly that having the wind with you adds a great deal of help in early maneuvers. IN a contest between relatively closely matched vessels (though Lydia obviously has the firepower advantage) the opening stages can have great impact on the course of the battle.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-12-01 04:33pm

Hornblower should win, all other things being equal. His ship is larger and more powerful, but more importantly he is a better officer than Aubrey. Don't get me wrong: Aubrey is very good, but Hornblower is much better in straight up tactical engagements like this one. He has repeatedly shown tremendous talent in engaging and destroying larger vessels with smaller ones, and whereas Aubrey usually has to rely on such "tricks" as pretending to be a whaling vessel to draw another ship within range, Hornblower uses his sailing skills to outmaneuver and defeat his opponents.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-01 05:00pm

Assuming he doesn't have a panic attack and isn't too proccupied with what his men think of his behavior, Hornblower would probably win.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-01 05:02pm

Andrew J. wrote:Assuming he doesn't have a panic attack and isn't too proccupied with what his men think of his behavior, Hornblower would probably win.

The incident with the fire ship attack shows he can at least control any gut reactions and think clearly. There's a reason he was promoted so damn quickly.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-01 05:31pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:Assuming he doesn't have a panic attack and isn't too proccupied with what his men think of his behavior, Hornblower would probably win.
The incident with the fire ship attack shows he can at least control any gut reactions and think clearly. There's a reason he was promoted so damn quickly.

Not to mention the incident with howitzer shell on the Hotspur and even if Hornblower isn't on the top of his game Bush is a capable enugh subordinate to be able to handle it.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-01 09:06pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:Assuming he doesn't have a panic attack and isn't too proccupied with what his men think of his behavior, Hornblower would probably win.
The incident with the fire ship attack shows he can at least control any gut reactions and think clearly. There's a reason he was promoted so damn quickly.

I know, I'm just kidding. I love the Hornblower stuff I've read so far, but you have to admit that sometimes it seems like he's constantly on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-01 09:07pm

He is Welsh (the actor rather)...