Why don't girls like nice guys?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-04 01:15am

Zaia: Eventually you just have to resolve, all at once, to just drop the baggage, calm down, and just slide with things and open up again.

No one flicks a switch for either of you. You'll just have to reach that point where you can force yourself to relinquish the death-grip on the baggage and skeletons-in-the-closet.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-04 01:18am

I find you dont forget baggage, just. . . dont think about it as much.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-04 01:18am

RogueIce wrote:Only slightly? *thinks about it*

On everyday except the ones where I get all mopey and sad and depressed and feel like no one will ever love me. Then I have very little self-confidence, but then my self-confidence on here plummets too, so it's a pretty accurate gauge, I'd say.

I'll make you a deal: if I ever meet you in real life, I will have absolutely no trouble with you kissing me on the cheek, nose, or other area, nor will I harbor any ill will towards you if you were to blow kisses my way and hug me.

Deal?

*laughs*

But will you stick with that even when you see that I'm not a Barbie girl? Don't make promises you won't keep or deals you won't hold up, sweetheart.

Ghost Rider: I know what you're saying, and it makes sense. I know that the line, "Well, life's not fair" is going to pop into everyone's head after I say this, but goddamn it all to hell, two truly kind, compassionate people finally meet each other and they are held away from each other because of the emotional damage some fuckwit Barbie-bitch did? Not to mention what the boys of my past have done to me (but that's nothing bad enough to keep me from Brian, if I had the chance). It's just horrifically unfair.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-04 01:26am

Zaia wrote: Ghost Rider: I know what you're saying, and it makes sense. I know that the line, "Well, life's not fair" is going to pop into everyone's head after I say this, but goddamn it all to hell, two truly kind, compassionate people finally meet each other and they are held away from each other because of the emotional damage some fuckwit Barbie-bitch did? Not to mention what the boys of my past have done to me (but that's nothing bad enough to keep me from Brian, if I had the chance). It's just horrifically unfair.

Yeah it sucks...it so royally sucks that afterwards...well I felt like an idiot.

The only thing I can honestly say is hope because I've read most of the stuff between you two and it does break my heart that he doesn't cherish you, but like I said...it truly may have shaken him so bad he doesn't know what to do.

I hope it does work out for you luv

.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-04 01:37am

Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah it sucks...it so royally sucks that afterwards...well I felt like an idiot.

Any chance of anything working out now?

The only thing I can honestly say is hope because I've read most of the stuff between you two and it does break my heart that he doesn't cherish you, but like I said...it truly may have shaken him so bad he doesn't know what to do.

Well, he's certainly acting like he's confused as all hell. I dropped something off at his work for him on Friday, and we had said goodbye and everything, and I was out of his office and halfway through his bandroom to the hallway when he called me back to ask what I was doing over the weekend, explaining that he was totally free, so if I wanted to, we could do something. He does that--I'll be about to leave, and he'll turn to me and be like, "---NO! Wait, don't go! Spend more time with me!!" But then, other times, it seems like he avoids me, so I don't know. Hence my location. *points*

And btw, you said "cherish." *kisses GR and then melts into pile of goo* That's a good word.

I hope it does work out for you luv .

Thank you, babydoll. I hope so too. *wraps arms around GR's waist and snuggles* Thank you for following the ongoing saga and for saying what you said. It's good to be able to share my confusion.

The Prime Necromancer · Post by **The Prime Necromancer** » 2003-06-04 02:24am

Hmmph.

I have always considered myself to be one of the "nice guys". However, I've never looked at my situation and thought "why aren't the girls all after me?" Well, maybe once or twice, but not often.

I have always concluded that the reason I have problems getting girls is because of my behavior. I don't *think* that it's that I project a "meek" or "spineless" image, but that I don't project an image that I'm "trying" or "interested". I have a very hard time flirting. I carry the idea of "treating everyone equally" perhaps just a tad bit too far. In addition, I make an almost subconscious attempt to hide feelings such as those. Although that's hardly unique to me, I know. Add that I'm easily paralyzed by doubt in even small decisions, let alone big ones, and you see my problem.

Of course, it doesn't help that the few times I do finally get over my own indecisiveness and get up the courage to do something flirtacious, girls always give me this *look*. It's rather hard to explain, but it seems to be mostly surprise mixed in with just a bit of revulsion. As if my action was not only unexpected, but unwelcomely so. I think my heart breaks a little bit more every time I see that.

I guess it's a big vicious cycle.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-04 09:21am

Zaia wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah it sucks...it so royally sucks that afterwards...well I felt like an idiot.
Any chance of anything working out now?

Well not really...but she is happily married to a guy in New Zealand...for which I am happy for her.

Me, I got over me being a complete fool and only regret I was one at the time.

*kisses Zaia on cheek* but thanks for asking dear.

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2003-06-04 12:31pm

Ah yes, so many problems that could be more easily solved if our fuckwit society was more honest with its inherent sexuality. Anyways, uhm, let me put it to you this way. Women look for a father figure a lot of the time. Part of Freud that I actually agree with. Women who wind up with assholes, therefore... well, are replacing an abusive father more often than not. Or brother, or psycho teacher. <Sighs>. Meanwhile, they are <really> afraid of an actual gentleman, because that is how the father figure who abused them in the first place appeared outwardly. End of rant.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-04 12:50pm

Just so you know, Tom, I didn't have an abusive father and I swear to whom or whatever that I really do want a nice guy. I'm at the point where I see gorgeous guys (ver can attest to this--he's shown me pics of these incredibly cut model-types) and they repulse me because I've met SO MANY like that who are assholes. I'm much more attracted to average-looking guys who are sweet, smart and have a great sense of humour.

When my best friend Katy met Brian, she had heard all about how gorgeous I said he was. Every time I talked about how hot I thought he was, I would add, "Then again, I'm a little biased." When she met him, she said her initial reaction about his looks was, "Meh, he's ok, I guess." She was expecting to see a shorter version of Brad Pitt, I guess. *shrugs and smiles* But then she got to see who he really is, she heard him tell stories and jokes and saw how sweet and kind he is, and now she can completely see how I think he's the most gorgeous person on the planet and told me that she even caught herself flirting with him for a second before remembering that he was my turf.

She and I are the same in that respect, that we're WAY more turned on by who someone really is as opposed to what they look like.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-04 12:56pm

Zaia wrote: What gave it away?

I think you complained about it because you might once have fallen in love with somebody only to be rejected because he didn't find you attractive.

Seriously, I don't know what it is, but no matter how attractive guys are, at a certain age, they seem to only be attracted to perfect-looking women.

I know that a lot of guys only date girls they consider attractive, but isn't "perfect-looking" a bit of an exaggeration??

They obviously don't give a damn about what her personality is, because she could roll her eyes, tell him that he's the ugliest motherfucker she's ever seen and that she'd never even let him shake her hand, let alone kiss or screw her, but does that matter? Of course not. He still thinks she's the most gorgeous thing ever.

Actually, if a girl said that to me, I'd keep a good distance away from her. I have a habit of feeling slightly emotionally scarred if I accidentally insult someone.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-04 01:19pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I think you complained about it because you might once have fallen in love with somebody only to be rejected because he didn't find you attractive.

It was hardly a complaint. I said I would be willing to bet my life about the number of shallow men as compared to the number of shallow women. That was based on my own personal experience as well as the experience of my friends, of which I have many, both male and female. Looking back on the people I have known, there have easily been more superficial men than women. End of story.

I know that a lot of guys only date girls they consider attractive, but isn't "perfect-looking" a bit of an exaggeration??

When you and your best friend are beautifully curvacious women who have been turned down repeatedly with comments such as, "I'm sorry, I'm looking for someone who looks a little more...feminine," and those same people end up dating model-thin little Twiggies with fake blonde hair and breast implants, there is no room for exaggeration. It's all real. Well, except the breasts.

Actually, if a girl said that to me, I'd keep a good distance away from her. I have a habit of feeling slightly emotionally scarred if I accidentally insult someone.

Oh, this bitch didn't accidentally insult him. He kept doing sweet things for her, and she kept rolling her eyes while telling him how she'd sooner fuck his dog (she wasn't exactly the most subtle person). He didn't care; he still thought she was the most beautiful woman ever. Yes, I guess she was hot, but godDAMN she was mean. So why else did he keep at her? She went out of her way to make him feel like shit, and he kept coming back for more.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-04 01:29pm

Zaia wrote:
Oh, this bitch didn't accidentally insult him. He kept doing sweet things for her, and she kept rolling her eyes while telling him how she'd sooner fuck his dog (she wasn't exactly the most subtle person). He didn't care; he still thought she was the most beautiful woman ever. Yes, I guess she was hot, but godDAMN she was mean. So why else did he keep at her? She went out of her way to make him feel like shit, and he kept coming back for more.

For this one...I have had a friend go through this, and the only thing I can even begin to grasp, is that he really was enamored with the thought of maybe being in love.

Some guys I've seen do just this...regardless of how shitty the woman treats them, the fact that they have one who will give them attention(be it bad or good) fuels them. It's irrational and insane, but they don't see it that way. Course the way he finally left her, is because she got drunk and tried to stab him. Yet still to this day(this was a couple years ago) he goes wishy-washy over her...even after we remind him she tried to kill him.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-04 01:58pm

Zaia wrote:When you and your best friend are beautifully curvacious women who have been turned down repeatedly with comments such as, "I'm sorry, I'm looking for someone who looks a little more...feminine," and those same people end up dating model-thin little Twiggies with fake blonde hair and breast implants, there is no room for exaggeration. It's all real. Well, except the breasts.

If you're telling me the truth, since I'm actually less discriminating when it comes to potential girlfriends than most other male teenagers due to the fact that I've tried to get a girlfriend for almost a year with no success.

Funny that you mentioned "model-thin twiggies with fake blonde hair", because I tend to steer clear of girls who look like praying mantises.

Oh, this bitch didn't accidentally insult him. He kept doing sweet things for her, and she kept rolling her eyes while telling him how she'd sooner fuck his dog (she wasn't exactly the most subtle person). He didn't care; he still thought she was the most beautiful woman ever. Yes, I guess she was hot, but godDAMN she was mean. So why else did he keep at her? She went out of her way to make him feel like shit, and he kept coming back for more.

That guy must have been gullible...

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-04 02:19pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:If you're telling me the truth, since I'm actually less discriminating when it comes to potential girlfriends than most other male teenagers due to the fact that I've tried to get a girlfriend for almost a year with no success.

If I'm telling you the truth? Um...why would I lie? It's not the most flattering thing for me to talk about.

Funny that you mentioned "model-thin twiggies with fake blonde hair", because I tend to steer clear of girls who look like praying mantises.

As do I. But for a different reason.

That guy must have been gullible...

Well, that's one word for it.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-06-04 02:27pm

I think we all need those match-making devices like they have in Japan (gizmos that tell you when someone is compatible, via the other persons similar gizmo) so the nice girls can match up with the nice guys, and the ice would be immediately broken.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-04 11:58pm

Zaia wrote:But will you stick with that even when you see that I'm not a Barbie girl? Don't make promises you won't keep or deals you won't hold up, sweetheart.

I haven't yet.

But if I were to not uphold it, wouldn't be on how you look. Might have something to do with, "Why is this stranger trying to kiss me?"

Of course, if you wore a big shirt that said "ZAIA" on it...

As to your situation, your guy sounds a bit like the girl I am currently trying to, well, um, woo I guess. Don't know what her previous boyfriend was like (besides "dumb" anyway), but she feels that in every relationship she's been in, she's been the one to screw it up. WHich is why she says she's hesitent to get in a new one. Of course, whether it's an excuse to "let me down gently" or the truth, I have no way to tell, but, in my naive belief, she's telling the truth. She sounded pretty sincere, anyway. So, if you can figure out how to work past the fear of screwing it up with him, be sure and let me know.

I wish I could help you, but I have zero experience in relationships myself.

All I can say is, you two just have to try, and whatever problems may or may not crop up, gotta take 'em one step at a time. If you can't get through some of the problems, then, well, maybe it's not meant to be.

(Wonders how many other people have said something probably fairly close to this)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-06-05 12:04am

Zaia wrote:It was hardly a complaint. I said I would be willing to bet my life about the number of shallow men as compared to the number of shallow women. That was based on my own personal experience as well as the experience of my friends, of which I have many, both male and female. Looking back on the people I have known, there have easily been more superficial men than women. End of story.

I'm sorry to hear about your negative experiences. In my experience, men and women are equally superficial when it comes to first impressions, but women can get over it and look deeper more readily, while an awful lot of men remain stuck at first impressions.

When you and your best friend are beautifully curvacious women who have been turned down repeatedly with comments such as, "I'm sorry, I'm looking for someone who looks a little more...feminine," and those same people end up dating model-thin little Twiggies with fake blonde hair and breast implants, there is no room for exaggeration. It's all real. Well, except the breasts.

How many model-thin women with bleached hair and fake tits are there? Maybe that's not as common here in Toronto, but I've run into very few such specimens. And most of the guys I know think that big fake tits are nice to look at, but they wouldn't be interested in dating a girl who had them.

Oh, this bitch didn't accidentally insult him. He kept doing sweet things for her, and she kept rolling her eyes while telling him how she'd sooner fuck his dog (she wasn't exactly the most subtle person). He didn't care; he still thought she was the most beautiful woman ever. Yes, I guess she was hot, but godDAMN she was mean. So why else did he keep at her? She went out of her way to make him feel like shit, and he kept coming back for more.

She ain't pretty, she just looks that way (sorry, you reminded me of that old Northern Pikes song again).

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-05 12:11am

Darth Wong wrote:
Zaia wrote:Oh, this bitch didn't accidentally insult him. He kept doing sweet things for her, and she kept rolling her eyes while telling him how she'd sooner fuck his dog (she wasn't exactly the most subtle person). He didn't care; he still thought she was the most beautiful woman ever. Yes, I guess she was hot, but godDAMN she was mean. So why else did he keep at her? She went out of her way to make him feel like shit, and he kept coming back for more.
She ain't pretty, she just looks that way (sorry, you reminded me of that old Northern Pikes song again).

Only Fools Fall In Love?

I don't know. Hm. Maybe she was the first girl he met, so it was the whole "first crush" thing? Or he might've hoped that if he kept at it, she might soften up, and what she was doing was some wierd defenseive mechanism or some other kind of psychobabble. In other words: maybe he was just plain being naive (I know I am plenty of times).

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-06-05 01:22am

I don't know. Hm. Maybe she was the first girl he met, so it was the whole "first crush" thing?

Sounds like it. I know that I pulled stuff like that, when I was younger. Back in High School, I used to draw pictures and give them to people. One girl in particular I tried to woo this way, and wound up drawing over fifty pictures for her.

She and I aren't on good terms anymore, and haven't been for over two years.

There's a helluva difference between a "crush" and actually being in love. The former causes pain and heartache whenever you're not with the person. The latter... well, you're always comfortable, even if she's 2,000 miles away and you haven't seen her in a week, because you know she'll be back in just a few days.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-05 01:35am

SPOOFE wrote:<snip>

There's a helluva difference between a "crush" and actually being in love. The former causes pain and heartache whenever you're not with the person. The latter... well, you're always comfortable, even if she's 2,000 miles away and you haven't seen her in a week, because you know she'll be back in just a few days.

*sudden insight* So that's why it's called a crush, maybe?

See what happens when you never think too deeply into these things?

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-05 01:36am

RogueIce wrote:I haven't yet. But if I were to not uphold it, wouldn't be on how you look. Might have something to do with, "Why is this stranger trying to kiss me?" Of course, if you wore a big shirt that said "ZAIA" on it...

*chuckles and tries to remember whether or not I own anything that reads "Zaia" on it*

RI wrote:...Of course, whether it's an excuse to "let me down gently" or the truth, I have no way to tell, but, in my naive belief, she's telling the truth. She sounded pretty sincere, anyway.

That's how I feel about Brian. I felt like he was being sincere, and I have no reason to believe that he's lying to me, but at the same time, my previous experience pulls me toward thinking that I'm just being naïve and that he's really just a sweet guy trying not to hurt my feelings.

RI wrote:So, if you can figure out how to work past the fear of screwing it up with him, be sure and let me know.

*salutes* Aye, aye, sir.

D.W. wrote:I'm sorry to hear about your negative experiences. In my experience, men and women are equally superficial when it comes to first impressions, but women can get over it and look deeper more readily, while an awful lot of men remain stuck at first impressions.

Realistically I know that you are right, but it's hard sometimes to keep that fact in perspective and not let my personal experiences shade my opinions on those types of matters.

D.W. wrote:How many model-thin women with bleached hair and fake tits are there? Maybe that's not as common here in Toronto, but I've run into very few such specimens. And most of the guys I know think that big fake tits are nice to look at, but they wouldn't be interested in dating a girl who had them.

How many?! Oy... In Towson, quite a few. There are guys who go to Towson University just for the chicks. There are a number of little princesses who get nose jobs for their 16th birthdays and boob jobs as high school graduation presents, they go to tanning salons to get dark and crispy, and they dye their hair blonde. There are over 10,000 students at T.U., and walking through campus, you'd swear that 20% of the student population were clones. Skinny little bodies, tight, skanky clothes, fake hair, tans and breasts, too much make-up for the daytime, cell phones plastered to their ear, and a $150 miniature handbag hanging from their shoulder. These are the girls with whom I went to university, and these same girls are the ones the guys I liked were holding out for. *shrugs*

D.W. wrote:She ain't pretty, she just looks that way (sorry, you reminded me of that old Northern Pikes song again).

I reminded you of that song again? When else have I reminded you of it, out of curiousity?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-05 01:52am

Zaia wrote:*chuckles and tries to remember whether or not I own anything that reads "Zaia" on it*

I'm sure you could buy it in a store somewhere. After all...I just lost my train of thought. Damn.

Zaia wrote:That's how I feel about Brian. I felt like he was being sincere, and I have no reason to believe that he's lying to me, but at the same time, my previous experience pulls me toward thinking that I'm just being naïve and that he's really just a sweet guy trying not to hurt my feelings.

Yeah, tough, isn't it? Just gotta go with your gut (or instinct, if you want) I guess, and see what happens. What more can you really do? *shrug*

Zaia wrote:*salutes* Aye, aye, sir.

Ohhhhh, Navy-speak. Me like.

Zaia wrote:How many?! Oy... In Towson, quite a few. There are guys who go to Towson University just for the chicks. There are a number of little princesses who get nose jobs for their 16th birthdays and boob jobs as high school graduation presents, they go to tanning salons to get dark and crispy, and they dye their hair blonde. There are over 10,000 students at T.U., and walking through campus, you'd swear that 20% of the student population were clones. Skinny little bodies, tight, skanky clothes, fake hair, tans and breasts, too much make-up for the daytime, cell phones plastered to their ear, and a $150 miniature handbag hanging from their shoulder. These are the girls with whom I went to university, and these same girls are the ones the guys I liked were holding out for. *shrugs*

Yellowtext: There's a girl in my school who got one of those. Supposedly. They looked real enough to me when I saw her in the halls (and, in typical High School Guy fashion, made me notice

), but I've been told they're fake by a female friend of mine. Who then went on to tell me how you can tell the difference. Don't know if it's true, but whatever. I'll take her word for it. And, for the record, I've seen how she acts, and she seems the type to crave attention from the morons-who-look-good. So, I don't wanna go out with her. Not that I did anyway, since I don't even know who she is. But I figured I'd point that out, and that she's an attention-craver.

As to the rest... *shudder* Any girl who's twig-thin (Ally McBeal Types, Zaia?) scare me. I'd be afraid to snap them in two with a hug. And the makeup and all that crap is a major turnoff (not that they give a shit about my turnoffs, but whatever) for me. Sorry, if you gotta put on five pounds of makeup to look decent*, I want nothing from you. If you're gonna fake your appearance that much, what else are you gonna fake around me? Light makeup is ok, I guess, though I prefer the natural look myself Maybe some lipstick or whatever, but nothing too noticable. But that's just me, and I've never had a girl. So what do I know?

*Reading it over, just thought I'd clarify. Five pounds of makeup until you think you look decent, I guess. In other words, that they think they need all that to be pretty. I can't word it right tonight, but it's not meant to be as shallow as it sounds. Maybe when I have more than three hours of sleep, I can clarify it better.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-05 10:34am

Zaia wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:If you're telling me the truth, since I'm actually less discriminating when it comes to potential girlfriends than most other male teenagers due to the fact that I've tried to get a girlfriend for almost a year with no success.
If I'm telling you the truth? Um...why would I lie? It's not the most flattering thing for me to talk about.

I happen to know several girls aged 14-16, who despite not being very attractive, still could get boyfriends.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-06-05 11:13am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Zaia wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:If you're telling me the truth, since I'm actually less discriminating when it comes to potential girlfriends than most other male teenagers due to the fact that I've tried to get a girlfriend for almost a year with no success.
If I'm telling you the truth? Um...why would I lie? It's not the most flattering thing for me to talk about.
I happen to know several girls aged 14-16, who despite not being very attractive, still could get boyfriends.

Ok.......I was talking about my own experiences, and you implied that I lied. My question to you was why you thought I would do so.

I'm glad that you know some young girls who aren't attractive but who can still get boyfriends (is that because they're really smart/funny/fun to be with, or because they're easy?), but that really doesn't answer my question asking you why you think I would lie about this. Unless you're saying that I'm not even attractive enough to be in the "not-attractive-but-can-still-get-a-boyfriend" category..?

All of what I've said has been based on my personal experiences from the time when I was in middle school through now. I'm currently twenty-five.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-05 11:41am

Zaia wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Zaia wrote: If I'm telling you the truth? Um...why would I lie? It's not the most flattering thing for me to talk about.
I happen to know several girls aged 14-16, who despite not being very attractive, still could get boyfriends.
Ok.......I was talking about my own experiences, and you implied that I lied. My question to you was why you thought I would do so.

I'm very sorry if I happened to give the impression I didn't trust you. I just happened to know some exceptions to the status quo.

I'm glad that you know some young girls who aren't attractive but who can still get boyfriends (is that because they're really smart/funny/fun to be with, or because they're easy?), but that really doesn't answer my question asking you why you think I would lie about this.

I'm sorry if I didn't express myself clearly - I didn't think you were lying, I just had the feeling you might have been generalizing about young men being shallow. However, given that you're older than me, you probably know more about it than I do. My apologies.

Unless you're saying that I'm not even attractive enough to be in the "not-attractive-but-can-still-get-a-boyfriend" category..?

I've seen that picture of you, and you look kinda cute on it.