It's time to tell the House of Saud goodbye.

[His Divine Shadow]

Jesus, CSS clone shows his stupidity again. Wind farms are worthless,
take up enormous amounts of land in return for negligable MW ratings..

Of course it would not be the wisest use of arable land.But they are economically viable.

Yep, and places like the States with the vast open planes could put up a lot of them. It's the right way to go, Unlike B.C., which is looking into building coal power plants.

Beautiful British Columbia, Welcome to the 16th century.

God I hate the provincial liberals.

Nope, nuke plants please.
Take ALOT less area than wind or solar power.

Centralized solar/wind power plants are bad ideas, but home owners having their own private ones to help them minimize their dependancy on central power however is a good idea.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yeah, you don't need to eliminate oil use to eliminate the Middle East's political importance. Just producing more wind turbines and solar panels would help. Ever barrel you save is one less barrel you need to buy from people who are trying to kill you.

It would seem to be the smart thing to do.

Utterly worthless technologies as of today, we need more nuclear power plants.
Though for solar and wind power I'll say that if the majority of private house owners got them for their houses, we'd probably see alot less need for central power, and thereby alot less required power from them.

Utterly worthless? They work, they produce lots of energy for absolutely no fuel.

It's not like there's an unlimited supply of Uranium either. There's only about 50 years left of easily recouverable Uranium. That's not a whole lot.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yep, and places like the States with the vast open planes could put up a lot of them. It's the right way to go, Unlike B.C., which is looking into building coal power plants.

Beautiful British Columbia, Welcome to the 16th century.

God I hate the provincial liberals.

Nope, nuke plants please.
Take ALOT less area than wind or solar power.

Are you taking the mines into consideration when you came up with that claim?

Centralized solar/wind power plants are bad ideas, but home owners having their own private ones to help them minimize their dependancy on central power however is a good idea.

Most home could turn to solar and become a net energy producer. They cost a lot for initial instillation, but over the live of the house they easily pay for themselves.

[His Divine Shadow]

Are you taking the mines into consideration when you came up with that claim?

Mines?

Most home could turn to solar and become a net energy producer. They cost a lot for initial instillation, but over the live of the house they easily pay for themselves.

Thats doubtfull, I'd be suprised if they can generate enough to keep their house going, it's not a replacement for anything, it's an aid.
The idea that we can just replace old fashioned power generating methods cold-turkey with solar or wind power is kinda preposterous.

[His Divine Shadow]

Compared with fossil fuels, nuclear is safer and cleaner, and the only problem is disposing of the waste. We can safely transport waste to dosposal sites, but there aren't enough.

There are technologies in development that can make the used fuel harmless in a century or so.
Also one can refine used fuel to be used again.

[Cthulhu-chan]

Aha! I new it!

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proc ... 1-041.html

We do NOT have to use petroleum for our hydrocarbon needs! Various crops are quite capable of matching our needs, without relying on depletable resources. One particular crop would be very beneficial in this.

And that crop is...

Wait for it...

Hemp.

Yeah, that's right. Hemp.

Now I don't give a rat's ass about the psychoactive properties, but jebus this plant is versatile! Paper, textile, hydrocarbons from potential fuels to machine oils to cooking oils (possibly even plastics!). The damn weed is as versatile as the peanut, maybe more so! Pot can stay illegal for all I care, but the current attitudes torward hemp are like refusing to use a tool because it a bit dirty.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Aha! I new it!

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proc ... 1-041.html

We do NOT have to use petroleum for our hydrocarbon needs! Various crops are quite capable of matching our needs, without relying on depletable resources. One particular crop would be very beneficial in this.

And that crop is...

Wait for it...

Hemp.

Yeah, that's right. Hemp.

Now I don't give a rat's ass about the psychoactive properties, but jebus this plant is versatile! Paper, textile, hydrocarbons from potential fuels to machine oils to cooking oils (possibly even plastics!). The damn weed is as versatile as the peanut, maybe more so! Pot can stay illegal for all I care, but the current attitudes torward hemp are like refusing to use a tool because it a bit dirty.

Well, if Hemp can be used to make a viable alternative for industrial hydrocarbons, I naturally fully support hemp production. I, after all, already support legalization.

[His Divine Shadow]

Utterly worthless? They work, they produce lots of energy for absolutely no fuel

At a measly 11% efficency for solar power, and on a sunny day you get about about 155W per M^2, at 11% efficency you'd get 17watts per M^2.
So say you have 30M^2 of solar collectors on your roof, you'd get 511W from those, enough to run 8-9 60W lightbulbs.
Ofcourse you store energy in batteries, per hour you could possibly get 61 Kilojoules per hour from such an assembly, on a good day.

It's not like there's an unlimited supply of Uranium either. There's only about 50 years left of easily recouverable Uranium. That's not a whole lot.

Current technologies can make used nuclear fuel usable again, breeder reactors, we could technically make a nearly infinite loop this way IIRC.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Current technologies can make used nuclear fuel usable again, breeder reactors, we could technically make a nearly infinite loop this way IIRC.

There's a downside to those.

[His Divine Shadow]

Current technologies can make used nuclear fuel usable again, breeder reactors, we could technically make a nearly infinite loop this way IIRC.

There's a downside to those.

Which is?
I'm guessing the fact that you can use them to make weapons-grade nuclear material.

[Admiral Piett]

Which is?
I'm guessing the fact that you can use them to make weapons-grade nuclear material.

The fact that they are utterly dangerous.Do you have any clue about the safety problems related to breeder reactors?
In theory they could even explode like a mini nuke (the explosion would be very small,but possibly enough to destroy the containment vessel,exposing the environment to plutonium contamination).And that it is just the top of the iceberg.

[Edi]

Regarding hemp, there is a marked difference between industrial hemp and the variety used to produce marijuana and hasis. It's just that US laws make no distinction whatsoever between them, and that oversight is deliberate, it was introduced into the law in its time to protect the economic interests of certain parties who benefited from industrial hemp being unavailable. It would have threatened their stranglehold in certain markets.

Industrial hemp could be used to produce all sorts of things mentioned here already, but not to produce drugs, if what I have heard is correct. So basically it's possible from the war-on-drugs point of view to eat the cake and have it too, by legalizing industrial hemp while keeping the drug producing variety illegal.

Edi

[Cthulhu-chan]

Another interesting bit on the viability of hemp, as well as why it got demonized in the first place.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/downs2.htm

As well as a bit on biofuels as a replacement/augmentation for diesel.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Performance.PDF

[His Divine Shadow]

Do you have any links to articles or some such about breeder reactors?

Also, a bit offtopic, someone has designed the 100% secure nuclear reactor, read about that in a science-mag, pretty neat actually.

[Admiral Piett]

" I don't think you're going to get serious human rights violations."

Evidently you missed the part with the opposers being collected in the football stadium and tortured and executed there.

" There's no call from over there to prosecute him. But the Left demonizes Augusto Pinochet."

There are leftists who praise Milosevic.So what? They are morons.Pinochet is a moron,in the same league of Milosevic or Saddam.They would deserve to be in the front of the same firing squad.Together with the idiots who support them knowing what their beloved leaders are really doing.

"The military isn't a police force - It breaks things to stop people"

I am curious to see how would you think about the matter if they tried to break you first.They would start from the limbs...

[Admiral Piett]

Do you have any links to articles or some such about breeder reactors?

Also, a bit offtopic, someone has designed the 100% secure nuclear reactor, read about that in a science-mag, pretty neat actually.

"The liquid Sodium used for the coolant requires certain precautions due to Sodium’s violently reactive nature. It must be prevented from coming into contact with Oxygen or water, either of which would produce and explosive reaction and fire. The reactor vessel must be evacuated and refilled with Argon, an inert gas, an all the Sodium lines must be purged. The steam generator must be designed very carefully in order to prevent any water leaks that could result in an explosion. There is a dual cycle or two loop system of coolant. The primary loop extends from the reactor vessel to a heat exchanger and back to the reactor. The Sodium in this loop becomes radioactive from flowing through the core. The secondary loop goes from the heat exchanger to the steam generator and back again. In the steam generator the heat from the Sodium is transferred to water under 2400psi of pressure at 900°F Sodium has "excellent heat transfer characteristics….[although it] presents problems due to is induced radioactivity, its flammability, and its reactivity with water. Operation of component such as pumps, which are completely immersed in molten Sodium, is a further problem". Unlike Light Water Reactors, Fast Breeder Reactors are capable of reaching the type of critical mass required to produce a low order nuclear explosion as a result of a power excursion that results in a meltdown of the fuel."

http://nuclearhistory.tripod.com/reactor.html

I have also books that deal with the problems listed above.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Do you have any links to articles or some such about breeder reactors?

Also, a bit offtopic, someone has designed the 100% secure nuclear reactor, read about that in a science-mag, pretty neat actually.

"The liquid Sodium used for the coolant requires certain precautions due to Sodium’s violently reactive nature. It must be prevented from coming into contact with Oxygen or water, either of which would produce and explosive reaction and fire. The reactor vessel must be evacuated and refilled with Argon, an inert gas, an all the Sodium lines must be purged. The steam generator must be designed very carefully in order to prevent any water leaks that could result in an explosion. There is a dual cycle or two loop system of coolant. The primary loop extends from the reactor vessel to a heat exchanger and back to the reactor. The Sodium in this loop becomes radioactive from flowing through the core. The secondary loop goes from the heat exchanger to the steam generator and back again. In the steam generator the heat from the Sodium is transferred to water under 2400psi of pressure at 900°F Sodium has "excellent heat transfer characteristics….[although it] presents problems due to is induced radioactivity, its flammability, and its reactivity with water. Operation of component such as pumps, which are completely immersed in molten Sodium, is a further problem". Unlike Light Water Reactors, Fast Breeder Reactors are capable of reaching the type of critical mass required to produce a low order nuclear explosion as a result of a power excursion that results in a meltdown of the fuel."

http://nuclearhistory.tripod.com/reactor.html

I have also books that deal with the problems listed above.

Something isn't quite right about that. I know there's a breeder running in Idaho, and has been for a while, a government test reactor. It was able to replicate the same experiment they tried to do at Chernobyl, safely.

My only real concern with breeders is of course the proliferation one.

I'll need to ask some questions; maybe I'll start a specific thread about breeder reactors when I get the answers back.

[MKSheppard]

That may be the single most accurate thing you have ever, ever said.

A hell of a lot more accurate than you waving your fucktard "Statistics' around
without even proving them.

[MKSheppard]

Didn't Pinochet get convicted of war crimes, or crimes against humanity, or something like that? Doesn't that pretty much prove he's a SOB?

EVERYTHING'S a War Crime these days....especially if you had the gall
to slap down fundie muslims like Slobodoan Milosevic did.

[MKSheppard]

Utterly worthless? They work, they produce lots of energy for absolutely no fuel.

It's not like there's an unlimited supply of Uranium either. There's only about 50 years left of easily recouverable Uranium. That's not a whole lot.

Stop parroting enviromental propaganda, you drooling half-wit retard.

They've been predicting the end of "easily recoverable oil" for decades now,
yet we keep finding new sources and new methods to drill oil out of wells
previously thought dry.

[MKSheppard]

Most home could turn to solar and become a net energy producer. They cost a lot for initial instillation, but over the live of the house they easily pay for themselves.

Jesus, find a damn Motel 8 - don't disgust us all by mastubating to
solar.

[MKSheppard]

Now I don't give a rat's ass about the psychoactive properties, but jebus this plant is versatile! Paper, textile, hydrocarbons from potential fuels to machine oils to cooking oils (possibly even plastics!). The damn weed is as versatile as the peanut, maybe more so! Pot can stay illegal for all I care, but the current attitudes torward hemp are like refusing to use a tool because it a bit dirty.

I hope you like burlap for clothing, since that's what hemp is good for,
fugly clothing. I'll stick with cotton, thank you.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Are you taking the mines into consideration when you came up with that claim?

Mines?

The ones used to dig up the ore. Then theres the whole weapon aspect.

Most home could turn to solar and become a net energy producer. They cost a lot for initial instillation, but over the live of the house they easily pay for themselves.

Thats doubtfull,

That's not doubtful, that's a fact. There's a company in BC that will outfit a house for roughly $30,000 (that's Canadian) and that will make the house independent. You should still be on the power grid for the winter months, but in the summer you actually produce more energy than you require.

The idea that we can just replace old fashioned power generating methods cold-turkey with solar or wind power is kinda preposterous.

We have the technology. Hell, Iceland uses nothing but green energy sources. Granted, not every nation can do that, but if we used a combination of household power generation, energy conservation and large scale green production then we can do it.

[Admiral Piett]

Something isn't quite right about that. I know there's a breeder running in Idaho, and has been for a while, a government test reactor. It was able to replicate the same experiment they tried to do at Chernobyl, safely.

My only real concern with breeders is of course the proliferation one.

I'll need to ask some questions; maybe I'll start a specific thread about breeder reactors when I get the answers back.

How can you replicate in a fast bredeer the behaviour of a RBMK? They are quite different animals.Different coolants,different moderators (or lack of in one case) different fuels etc.It does not make sense to me.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yeah, that's right. Hemp.

It doesn't work. I used to work in a town with an industrial Hemp farm. Every weekend he'd have stoners breaking into his farm and stealing hemp. Yes, there were warning signs every 20 feet. Stoners tend not to be the brightest people around.