US Navy SEALS vs British SAS

OT: anything goes!

Moderator: Edi

The outcome?

SEALS pwn SAS with their mp5s
15
39%
SAS airdrops down, and take out SEALS before they know what's happening
23
61%
 
Total votes: 38

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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Oberleutnant wrote:I should probably PM this to Shep, but since it's kinda related I'll ask it here. Shep, have you ever had a change to try any Sako/Valmet assault rifles? I've heard that Sakos are quite popular in the United States... (the original Galils were based on Valmet M/62s)
Sadly no. We're pretty much screwed in our selection of assault rifles
here in the US.

HK doesn't even make a US version of the HK-91, just a fucked up
Politically correct version.

Only things that get mass produced here in the US are the AR-15 and
the AK-47 semiauto clones.

Anything else is too hideously expensive to buy...
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Post by 0.1 »

The only survivor of the Durant crash was Durant himself; everyone else in the chopper was killed on impact. I'm not sure how many survivors there were in the Wolcott crash,
In the movie, the only survivor at Durant's site was Durant, and of course at Wilcot's site, movie had two or three survivors. So, strictly speaking you're right if the movie was your only reference.

In reality, everyone survived the crash at Durant's site, both the crew chiefs as well as the copilot and Durant himself. At Wilcot's site, I believe there were six survivors after the crash, the four Delta snipers in the back and both crew chiefs. Although the accounts aren't entirely clear. I think one of the Delta snipers was KIA defending the downed chopper.

Certainly, in the case of Shugart and Gordon, those two shouldn't have been dropped in. They were facing essentially hopeless odds not matter how you looked at it.

But Wilcott crash site was different, it so much closer, it made sense at that moment to try to secure the site and pull the people out. That decision was made prior to Durant's chopper going down I think. It was about five blocks to the Wilcott site from their original position, and they had also dropped in their CSAR team which arrived after one of the Ranger chalks.

To have just pulled out and then try to go back in force might not have worked. It might have saved Durant's chopper from getting shot down, but not likely. And they would've had to write off all eight people on Wilcott's bird all the while watching it on live TV. But even if Durant's bird hadn't gone down, it would've been very troublesome getting back in there, they had to get Pakistani and Malaysian armor organized to go back in. That took until almost midnight.

The alternative was to pull out and then to go back in on Humvees and five tons supported by choppers might have been suicide, because they weren't better off then before. And it would've given the Samolis even more time to prepare for ambush of the relief column. They might have come off better in terms of pure casualties if they just abandoned Wilcott's bird, but it would've destroyed that entire unit morale. The lesson would've then been: "We won't abandon you that is as long as the numbers work out."

So, in hindsight, the mission was a total mess from the moment Wilcott's chopper got hit, but really, in the middle of a firefight where you have to make these snap decisions or people will die, I bet it's just not that easy to sit back and say: "let's pull out, accept the casualties and go back for them later." And all things considered, they were within a few moments of finishing their original mission with just a few casualties when the Wilcott's bird went down.
Last edited by 0.1 on 2002-12-09 07:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Exonerate »

Rob Wilson wrote: Those that play CounterStrike will know the L96A1 as the AWM sniper rifle (for whatever strange reason on the Coders behalf)
THE AWP! THE AWP!!! GET IT RIGHT PEOPLE! I believe they call it the AWP, because they couldn't get permission from the company to use the gun's name...
Edit: Stupid quote tags.

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Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

I know the BHD topic is kinda dead, but I started typing a reply yesterday but was too tired to finish it, so I saved it and...well...here it is:

I think the whole BHD incident was the Clinton administration's fault for not giving the military the proper equipment for the job. Granted, the mission was supposed to be secret, however I don't see why the addition of light armor would be any less blatant than dozens of helicopters and a column of Hum-Vees with an American base three miles away from the city. If they had light armor support, they could have more easily rescued the downed men without as many casualties as they had. They got lost, but I think that was largely because their Hum-Vees were getting shot up and people were getting wounded, distracting them from navigating. So they had to go back to the base to get medical treatment and to have repairs. This wouldn't have happened with light armor present. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. lol
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Post by phongn »

Rob Wilson wrote:
Ted wrote:Whats the R4/Galil?
Galil is an Isreali Assualt rifle that uase the same working parts/mechanism as the AK family but in a better produced more accurate body (AK's all about volume of fire not accuracy). So you have the robustness of the AK and the accuracy of a G3/M-16/etc.

R4 is the South African licenced build of the Galil.
Isn't the R4 a further modified version of the Galil?
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Post by Coyote »

Actuall the Israelis have phased the Galil out of active service in favor of the CAR-15. The Galil unfortunately has close to the same weight of the AK, but the punch of a 5.56. So it is definitely not an infantryman's treat to pack it around, up and down the rocky desert.

They like the Galil and are pleased that it is a local made product, but the 16in barrel M-16 rules the roost. They put the holographic sights on them and modify the slings into Ranger-Patrol style and keep 'em that way.
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Post by Evil Sadistic Bastard »

I heard of a Galil Sniper in 7.62 with a heavy barrel and 50-round mag. Is it good?
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Post by Coyote »

Hadn't heard of it, but I think a Galil in 7.62 would be worth lugging around. Would the mag be a snaildrum? I've got a 40-rounder for my AKMS. They're supposed to be nototriously prone to jamming but I've never had a problem....
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Post by Evil Sadistic Bastard »

Coyote wrote:Hadn't heard of it, but I think a Galil in 7.62 would be worth lugging around. Would the mag be a snaildrum? I've got a 40-rounder for my AKMS. They're supposed to be nototriously prone to jamming but I've never had a problem....
The Galil mag is a straight clip. Obviously the mag makes it very hard to use from the prone. It also comes with a bipod and a Nimrod scope (10x IIRC)
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