Tarot, Palms, Other Clairvoyancies (& Homosexuality?)

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-10 04:12pm

OK, so why must a Taroh card reading be face-to-face? Why does it work best that way? If the actual predictive information comes from the cards, then why does it matter if the person is there? What mysterious force manipulates the card probability such that accurate readings show up? The "spirits"? The person's "life energy"?

I've had a Taroh reading before. The past reading was characteristically vague, but could be considered somewhat accurate. The present, however, was woefully inaccurate and just flat-out wrong.

As for the claim that Taroh is supernatural, so logic and science do not apply to it, that's patently absurd. Taroh claims to have observable, physical interactions with the natural universe, so it any information gained through Taroh must be the result of natural processes. If something occurs in the natural world, it cannot be supernatural.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-10-10 04:39pm

Durandal wrote:As for the claim that Taroh is supernatural, so logic and science do not apply to it, that's patently absurd.

It's entertainment. I'm hoping people will learn to abandon the idea that they have some sort of nebulous, untraceable powers or connection to some otherworldly information source, be it gods, mystics, or psychic behaviour, and just treat it like the mysterious tricks of the street magician.

Like I said a couple of posts ago: Arrange and go on a 'ghost hunt' at a known-to-be-spooky place. If you can come out of that and look back and go, "Shit, that was fun. It wasn't ghosts, but it was cool." then you're probably a well-rounded human being. That view applies to most 'supernatural' phenomena and events. I view most of the paranormal the same way I view street magic: I don't know HOW it does it, I just like the experience. And as in most cases, your imagination makes up half the experience by itself.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-12 09:48pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:
verilon wrote:Actually, I have been offended, but I also do forgive (hey, you apologized in advance--very admirable!)

I was just saying you are such a Scorpio because you just completely contradicted yourself! A true sign of a Scorpio!
*whaps verilon on the head*

That was ironic humor!

Also, a real sign of a Scorpio is being an arrogant jackass, which I think I've pulled off admirably so far, eh?
So, since I'm a Scorpio means I'm an arrogant jackass too?

No, not at all...Scorpios just tend to be a bit self-contradictory.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-12 09:54pm

First off, Tarot is with a 'T.' Sorry, but I'm just anal about that. Some people don't have a problem giving Tarot readings not ftf, but I do...I believe that the energy of the person I am giving the reading to is "transmitted" to the cards when they shuffle them.

Lagmonster: Not true. Anyways, try this on for size: Yesterday, a ghost trapped myself and my friend in my dorm room. There was the spirit of her future son, and the ghost that just kinda hangs out in my room. It kept throwing her on my bed, and jumped into me. PM me if you would like the full story.

Also, to whoever was the Leo, Leos are typically a little louder and more outgoing than most people, especially involving anger and arguments, opposite of Cancers (like myself) who are more introverted and quiet (until it comes to debate).

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 01:16am

Durandal wrote:OK, so why must a Taroh card reading be face-to-face? Why does it work best that way? If the actual predictive information comes from the cards, then why does it matter if the person is there? What mysterious force manipulates the card probability such that accurate readings show up? The "spirits"? The person's "life energy"?

I've had a Taroh reading before. The past reading was characteristically vague, but could be considered somewhat accurate. The present, however, was woefully inaccurate and just flat-out wrong.

As for the claim that Taroh is supernatural, so logic and science do not apply to it, that's patently absurd. Taroh claims to have observable, physical interactions with the natural universe, so it any information gained through Taroh must be the result of natural processes. If something occurs in the natural world, it cannot be supernatural.

If you find yourself skeptic towards Tarot and other forms of divination, it is not going to work as well because you are concentrating on how it will not work. However, if you are willing to have an open mind about it, Tarot, palmistry, and whatnot will be easier to understand, and it will be more accurate.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 02:53am

verilon wrote:Well, try the "Let's play a game threads"

Wishy-washy...? Cancers...? No, that's more of an Aquarian trait.

Watch who you call wishy-washy...

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 02:54am

I said it was more of an Aquarian trait. Not necessarily that all Aquarians are wishy-washy. Watch who you argue with.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 02:55am

*schmack*

I wasn't arguing...

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 02:56am

Not then, you weren't...!

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 02:56am

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 02:57am

*grabs tongue and pierces*

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 02:59am

Hhmmm, now we're talking...

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 03:00am

Oh, mine is ALREADY pierced, I was talking about YOURS!

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 03:05am

verilon wrote:Ghosts are not entertainment. In fact, they are a thorough pain in the butt.

I agree wholeheartedly...

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 03:06am

verilon wrote:Oh, mine is ALREADY pierced, I was talking about YOURS!

Not yet. Surprisingly, I only have my left earlobe pierced and nothing else.

And I go to the CORE body suspension shows - Go figure!

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 03:08am

Mmm....I really don't care for suspensions...and if we're gonna talk about piercings....*bounces off to make new thread*

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-10-13 09:55am

verilon wrote:Lagmonster: Not true. Anyways, try this on for size: Yesterday, a ghost trapped myself and my friend in my dorm room. There was the spirit of her future son, and the ghost that just kinda hangs out in my room. It kept throwing her on my bed, and jumped into me. PM me if you would like the full story.

Here's an old line I heard from Bethel himself (yes, he's on the fringe, but he's fun to listen to): "When dealing with wierd, first you have to discount anything that could have a rational explanation. Then, if it's still there, ya got problems."

Frankly, I've seen so-called psychics twitching like a spasmatic, yelling, and crying. I've seen grown men start sweating and spouting Our Fathers like a nun. I've heard strange noises and seen doors slam and spoons spin on tables and everything in between. And I have yet to have a moment therein that, the moment I went to investigate, the phenomena started assailing me or continue its prowl regardless of what I said or did. By a rather kookish ghost hunter I met once, who beleives in exorcisms and reading energy on meters and porting psychics around, I have 'offended' so many ghosts that he's surprised I haven't been declared spook central by weight of pure vengeance. Which tells you how much stock I think you should put in them. If nothing else, I think I've proven that if you don't believe in them, they can't annoy you.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-13 07:03pm

Lagmonster wrote:Here's an old line I heard from Bethel himself (yes, he's on the fringe, but he's fun to listen to): "When dealing with wierd, first you have to discount anything that could have a rational explanation. Then, if it's still there, ya got problems."

Frankly, I've seen so-called psychics twitching like a spasmatic, yelling, and crying. I've seen grown men start sweating and spouting Our Fathers like a nun. I've heard strange noises and seen doors slam and spoons spin on tables and everything in between. And I have yet to have a moment therein that, the moment I went to investigate, the phenomena started assailing me or continue its prowl regardless of what I said or did. By a rather kookish ghost hunter I met once, who beleives in exorcisms and reading energy on meters and porting psychics around, I have 'offended' so many ghosts that he's surprised I haven't been declared spook central by weight of pure vengeance. Which tells you how much stock I think you should put in them. If nothing else, I think I've proven that if you don't believe in them, they can't annoy you.

I think that you're just bullshitting yourself because you're too scared to admit that there really was somehting heppening and that you couldn't rationally explain it.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-13 10:39pm

verilon wrote:
Lagmonster wrote:Here's an old line I heard from Bethel himself (yes, he's on the fringe, but he's fun to listen to): "When dealing with wierd, first you have to discount anything that could have a rational explanation. Then, if it's still there, ya got problems."

Frankly, I've seen so-called psychics twitching like a spasmatic, yelling, and crying. I've seen grown men start sweating and spouting Our Fathers like a nun. I've heard strange noises and seen doors slam and spoons spin on tables and everything in between. And I have yet to have a moment therein that, the moment I went to investigate, the phenomena started assailing me or continue its prowl regardless of what I said or did. By a rather kookish ghost hunter I met once, who beleives in exorcisms and reading energy on meters and porting psychics around, I have 'offended' so many ghosts that he's surprised I haven't been declared spook central by weight of pure vengeance. Which tells you how much stock I think you should put in them. If nothing else, I think I've proven that if you don't believe in them, they can't annoy you.
I think that you're just bullshitting yourself because you're too scared to admit that there really was somehting heppening and that you couldn't rationally explain it.

No comment...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-14 12:06am

First off, Tarot is with a 'T.' Sorry, but I'm just anal about that. Some people don't have a problem giving Tarot readings not ftf, but I do...I believe that the energy of the person I am giving the reading to is "transmitted" to the cards when they shuffle them.

So, why does a face-to-face reading matter? Energy travels at c. Obviously, the "life energy" knows where it's supposed to go, anyway (to the deck), so it's got a sense of direction. Traveling at c, distance on planetary scales is irrelevant.

So, again, why?

If you find yourself skeptic towards Tarot and other forms of divination, it is not going to work as well because you are concentrating on how it will not work. However, if you are willing to have an open mind about it, Tarot, palmistry, and whatnot will be easier to understand, and it will be more accurate.

How many people have you actually duped with that line?

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-14 01:29am

Durandal wrote:
First off, Tarot is with a 'T.' Sorry, but I'm just anal about that. Some people don't have a problem giving Tarot readings not ftf, but I do...I believe that the energy of the person I am giving the reading to is "transmitted" to the cards when they shuffle them.
So, why does a face-to-face reading matter? Energy travels at c. Obviously, the "life energy" knows where it's supposed to go, anyway (to the deck), so it's got a sense of direction. Traveling at c, distance on planetary scales is irrelevant.

So, again, why?

If you find yourself skeptic towards Tarot and other forms of divination, it is not going to work as well because you are concentrating on how it will not work. However, if you are willing to have an open mind about it, Tarot, palmistry, and whatnot will be easier to understand, and it will be more accurate.
How many people have you actually duped with that line?

Clairovoyancy is unconcerned with physics and sciences like this. And it's not "life energy" as you say it is, it's more of a metaphysical thing. I also stated that there are other people willing to do it in a different matter altogether. What you don't seem to understand is that there are different people that hold different beliefs. If you are unwilling to change your beliefs for what other people believe (not that I am trying to impose mine on yours, mind you), then what is the point of arguing witht hose that won't change theirs for yours?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-14 02:15am

Clairovoyancy is unconcerned with physics and sciences like this.

An event cannot take place in the natural universe and be "unconcerned" with the laws that govern it.

And it's not "life energy" as you say it is, it's more of a metaphysical thing.

Metaphysics is bullshit. If something has measurable effects in the natural universe, its mechanism must be caused by natural mechanisms.

I also stated that there are other people willing to do it in a different matter altogether. What you don't seem to understand is that there are different people that hold different beliefs. If you are unwilling to change your beliefs for what other people believe (not that I am trying to impose mine on yours, mind you), then what is the point of arguing witht hose that won't change theirs for yours?

The point is that I'm trying to objectively discern the validity behind your claims of clairvoyance. At this point, I have seen nothing but circular reasoning and copouts that conveniently rule out any skeptics as potential candidates for testing (i.e. "If you're not open to it, it won't happen"). It doesn't take supernatural powers to dupe some believing moron out of his money with vaguely-worded predictions, which is precisely what the so-called psychics do. It also happens in small buildings called a churches every Sunday across the nation.

Why don't we get you in a controlled environment or a lab and see how well your "powers" do?

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-14 04:43am

Because you'll still have to find a number of poeple willing to be involved in such an experiment, PLUS labs tend to decrease the potential of such a "spot" as there are, because it is so confining. You can't just put someone in a controlled environment and say, "Here you are, read my future." It doesn't work that way. Skeptics are not able to see, because they block the idea of the future actually being there...There is a mental block..you concentrate too much on the fact that you don't want it to happen, you don't want anbyone to see what goes on in your life, so nothing happens, it is too vague.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-14 05:19am

Goats and sheep; which one are you...?

Not literaly, mind you...

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-10-14 05:53am