It's time to tell the House of Saud goodbye.

[His Divine Shadow]

That's not doubtful, that's a fact. There's a company in BC that will outfit a house for roughly $30,000 (that's Canadian) and that will make the house independent. You should still be on the power grid for the winter months, but in the summer you actually produce more energy than you require.

Is there any truth to that, or is it just a sales pitch?
Because that can be skewed pretty easily.
Do they have any numbers?

We have the technology. Hell, Iceland uses nothing but green energy sources. Granted, not every nation can do that, but if we used a combination of household power generation, energy conservation and large scale green production then we can do it.

Iceland has the natural resources to do that, it's nearly unique in that respect.
And I doubt we can do it effectively.
I see no reason to increase green power production except in the small scale on indvidual houses and to try and conserve power, a middle ground is the best solution, until then we should make do with what we have until Nuclear fusion becomes viable.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Utterly worthless? They work, they produce lots of energy for absolutely no fuel

At a measly 11% efficency for solar power, and on a sunny day you get about about 155W per M^2, at 11% efficency you'd get 17watts per M^2.
So say you have 30M^2 of solar collectors on your roof, you'd get 511W from those, enough to run 8-9 60W lightbulbs.
Ofcourse you store energy in batteries, per hour you could possibly get 61 Kilojoules per hour from such an assembly, on a good day.

Where are you getting those numbers?

"The most commonly used panel size is in the 50-83 watt range, which is about 1000 x 400mm in size."

My house would need roughly 9 m^2

It's not like there's an unlimited supply of Uranium either. There's only about 50 years left of easily recouverable Uranium. That's not a whole lot.

Current technologies can make used nuclear fuel usable again, breeder reactors, we could technically make a nearly infinite loop this way IIRC.

"The design of fast-breeder reactors poses greater safety problems than those of other reactor types. The challenge is to develop a safe fast-breeder reactor that is economically competitive with thermal (slow-neutron) reactors, even when the lower fuel costs are accounted for. Currently the price of natural uranium and enrichment is not high enough to justify the additional costs associated with the use of breeder reactors. Thus, breeder reactors are more complex than other types of reactors and raise concerns about the proliferation of plutonium."

Basic problems:

1.) Costly - More expensive to run, even when you factor in fuel.
2.) Complex - More dangerous than normal reactors.
3.) Kaboom - Creates plutonium, which is used in weapons.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Do you have any links to articles or some such about breeder reactors?

http://chemcases.com/nuclear/nc-10.htm

Also, a bit offtopic, someone has designed the 100% secure nuclear reactor, read about that in a science-mag, pretty neat actually.

German and American co-experiment. It couldn't overheat and meltdown, but it was still vulnerable to attacks and was less effecient.

Interesting development, but not practical.

[Patrick Degan]

Probably around 3,000 people were killed during his 17-year rule of Chile, but he was facing an active Communist insurgency during that period, dealing with the armed militias that Allende had built up in Santiago's rust belt, and the Communist partisans in the rugged terrain of the Andes, who included the foreign volunteers - And between those two sources (Along with the initial coup, which included the innovative tactic of strafing the Presidential Palace with fighter jets), and genuine prosecutions and executions of Communist infiltrators, I don't think you're going to get serious human rights violations.

Doesn't it bother you that the true facts of Allende's legal election to office and the coup d'etat are easily researchable? You spray charges of Allende's alledged armed Communist militias (while conveinently citing no supporting evidence to back this contention, I notice) while at the same time applauding the violent overthrow of what was, whether you like it or not, a legally, constitutionally elected government and dismiss the 3000 deaths that can be laid at the Junta's doorstep.

Mugabe for example has undoubtably caused the deaths of many, many more people and the Left still praises him for standing up to "globalization" - There's no call from over there to prosecute him. But the Left demonizes Augusto Pinochet.

Non sequitor. The actions of Mugabe have no bearing on any discussion on either Agusto Pinochet or Salvador Allende. Stick to the subject.

You know why? Because Salvadore Allende gave the man his job thinking that because he was a strict constitutionalist he'd obey orders. Augusto Pinochet decided that Allende was destroying the Chilean constitution and had to be stopped to save Chile, and he stopped him.

Quote the clause of the Chilean constitution which empowers the military to overthrow the elected government when it decides, in its own judgement, that it is "necessary", if you please. If you cannot do so, then Pinochet and his fellow officers are, by definition, guilty of treason and murder.

The military isn't a police force - It breaks things to stop people, and Allende had badly damaged Chile by then. 17 years later and 3,000 bodies, Chile was fixed and Augusto Pinochet stepped down, desiring only a quiet retirement.

Pinochet stepped down under both domestic and international pressure, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it with blather which sounds like propaganda for the Junta.

The Left, angry that the lie of a Communist who was willing to operate democratically had been disproven by Pinochet, set out to bury the truth with slander, and they've largely succeeded.

Like a lot of your so-called "facts" that one is not strictly true. From the moment that Allende came out on top in the popular vote in 1970, Jorge Allesandri, the incumbent and second-place runner in the general election, threatened a coup d'etat which would ensure that Allende would never take power as president. The Christian Democrats were never prepared to accept a left-wing government under any circumstances. Doubly so when Popular Union scored 55% in the congressional elections of 1972.
http://www.geocities.com/educhile_1970s/Allende.html

[MKSheppard]

"The most commonly used panel size is in the 50-83 watt range, which is about 1000 x 400mm in size."

My house would need roughly 9 m^2

Wow, a 1 metre by 0.4 metre panel won't give me enough juice to light
a 120 watt lightbulb. Bzzzt. Try again.

[His Divine Shadow]

Where are you getting those numbers?

From various websites, using google will give you many hits.
And your position on the globe also matters:
On an 8 hour summer day, 40 degree latitude you get 600 Watts per sq. meter for example, thats 4.8 kilowatt hours for the whole day.

Thats what the sun can send down, ofcourse the solar assembly's efficency is not 100%, last I heard it was at 11% efficency, so thats 0.3 kilowatt hours for 8 hours of sunlight.

[His Divine Shadow]

I've read that new types of solar cells can give up to nearly 30% maybe 50% efficiency.

[MKSheppard]

I've read that new types of solar cells can give up to nearly 30% maybe 50% efficiency.

Let's not forget the insane amounts of chemicals and ENERGY neeeded
to manufacture said solar cells.....

it's a dirty little secret of the hippie solar wankers:

Solar panels are made by PHOTOETCHING - the same process computer
chips are made, and we all know how toxic that is - so CSS Clone is going
to dump millions of gallons of toxic waste onto the earth so he can be
safe in his hippie fantasy of a solar house.

This guy cannot be the real CS Strowbridge. He is just so goddamn
stupid.

[MKSheppard]

BTW, There are four states with semi-active sepertist movements. Hawaii, Florida, Texas and Alaska. Guess what the last two have in common!

Provide cites asshole.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

"The most commonly used panel size is in the 50-83 watt range, which is about 1000 x 400mm in size."

My house would need roughly 9 m^2

Wow, a 1 metre by 0.4 metre panel won't give me enough juice to light
a 120 watt lightbulb. Bzzzt. Try again.

Gee, I guess it never occured to you that you could put more than one panel on a house. The average house could have 30 or 40 of these. They're that small.

[MKSheppard]

Gee, I guess it never occured to you that you could put more than one panel on a house. The average house could have 30 or 40 of these. They're that small.

Wow, only 1,600 watts. Your average heating element uses more. For
1/30th the price of your masturbatory solar power wankfantasy, I can get
a generator that puts out 7,000 watts

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Gee, I guess it never occured to you that you could put more than one panel on a house. The average house could have 30 or 40 of these. They're that small.

Wow, only 1,600 watts. Your average heating element uses more. For
1/30th the price of your masturbatory solar power wankfantasy, I can get
a generator that puts out 7,000 watts

Excuse me? My whole house uses less. What the fuck are you smoking?

[MKSheppard]

Excuse me? My whole house uses less. What the fuck are you smoking?

Electricity I at College. You're a retarded fucktard. Lots of things require
1,600 watts, especially 13 amp electric heaters.

My god, your entire solar house is rated at less than the capacity of
a typical american kitchen countertop circut.

[Colonel Olrik]

Gee, I guess it never occured to you that you could put more than one panel on a house. The average house could have 30 or 40 of these. They're that small.

Wow, only 1,600 watts. Your average heating element uses more.

With the present technology, the best way to make use of the Sun in building an house is not with Solar panels. It's in the use of proper materials and builidn structures, with the objective of minimizing the power needed to sustain a confortable environment.

There are many engineering possibilities already used with that purpose. However, most of the new buildings we see are still projected only to look nice, to have a certain pattern which the architect prefers. They do not take into account the surronding environment.

That is criminal.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Excuse me? My whole house uses less. What the fuck are you smoking?

Electricity I at College. You're a retarded fucktard. Lots of things require
1,600 watts, especially 13 amp electric heaters.

Two points:

1.) Weren't you in College for all of 2 weeks before you were kicked out for attacking a female student?

2.) I've got my electricy bill right in front of me. Unlike you, I live in the real world. I pay bills. I know how much things cost. And these bills tell me exactly how much power I use per day.

[MKSheppard]

2.) I've got my electricy bill right in front of me. Unlike you, I live in the real world. I pay bills. I know how much things cost. And these bills tell me exactly how much power I use per day.

Then you must live in a mystical land where the laws of physics do not apply,
and where the local utility gives you special rates because you are
Chris Steven Strowbridge?

Again, your entire solar house is rated at less than the amperage of
a typical american kitchen countertop circuit.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

BTW, There are four states with semi-active sepertist movements. Hawaii, Florida, Texas and Alaska. Guess what the last two have in common!

Provide cites asshole.

Texas Republic, more of a militia than an actual political movement. Got into a gun battle with the fed a few years back. I'm surprise you don't have their name tattooed on your ass for that.

Independent Party of Florida. - Read about it in a Dave Barry Column. A bit of a joke, but no more than the rest of Florida's political scene.

Hawain Nation - Legal fund to get a referendum for seperation.

Alaskan Independence Party - Largest Statewide third party in the US. Their leader was killed in 94, otherwise he could have been Governor by now.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

It's back ...

1.) Weren't you in College for all of 2 weeks before you were kicked out for
attacking a female student?

Answer the question, if you are going to claim College education to override BC Hydro, you're going to have to give details.

2.) I've got my electricy bill right in front of me. Unlike you, I live in the real world. I pay bills. I know how much things cost. And these bills tell me exactly how much power I use per day.

Then you must live in a mystical land where the laws of physics do not apply,
and where the local utility gives you special rates because you are
Chris Steven Strowbridge?

Again, your entire solar house is rated at less than the amperage of
a typical american kitchen countertop circuit.

Chris Steve Strowbridge? Huh?

Anywho, my bill says what it says. If you want to claim it's wrong, then get your electricity bill and tell us how many KwH you use a month.

[MKSheppard]

Texas Republic, more of a militia than an actual political movement. Got into a gun battle with the fed a few years back. I'm surprise you don't have their name tattooed on your ass for that.

part of the agreement between the Rep of Texas and the US that
made Texas a state was the right to secede at any time, plus
being able to fly the TX flag at the same height at the US Flag,
so I'd discount that, seeing as our prez is from TX. The real
problems down there have to do with illegal immigration and the
government's lack of response, leading to border militas to stop
that shit.

Hawain Nation - Legal fund to get a referendum for seperation.

Let me guess, a bunch of assholes who are related to the last queen of
Hawaii?

Alaskan Independence Party - Largest Statewide third party in the US. Their leader was killed in 94, otherwise he could have been Governor by now.

Interesting. The US will never let Alaska go, not in the current political clime.

[MKSheppard]

Chris Steve Strowbridge? Huh?

Yeah, your name. Don't tell me you've forgotten it....unless you are not
the real CS Strowbridge, but an imposter using his name. The real CSS
could not be this fucking stupid.

Anywho, my bill says what it says. If you want to claim it's wrong, then get your electricity bill and tell us how many KwH you use a month.

http://store.yahoo.com/appliancediscoun ... 30els.html



Frigidaire Line 30" Electric Smoothtop Cooktop FEC30S6A

• Cooking Elements
• 1 - 8" and 2-6" Radiant Ribbon Elements
• 1 - 9" High Performance 2500 Watt Ribbon Element

That one single item needs almost 1kW more than your entire solar systme
could generate on a good day.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

It's back again ...

1.) Weren't you in College for all of 2 weeks before you were kicked out for
attacking a female student?

Answer the question, if you are going to claim College education to override BC Hydro, you're going to have to give details.

Chris Steve Strowbridge? Huh?

Yeah, your name. Don't tell me you've forgotten it....unless you are not
the real CS Strowbridge, but an imposter using his name. The real CSS
could not be this fucking stupid.

Check the ASVS FUQ. It's not my name.

Anywho, my bill says what it says. If you want to claim it's wrong, then get your electricity bill and tell us how many KwH you use a month.

http://store.yahoo.com/appliancediscoun ... 30els.html



Frigidaire Line 30" Electric Smoothtop Cooktop FEC30S6A

• Cooking Elements
• 1 - 8" and 2-6" Radiant Ribbon Elements
• 1 - 9" High Performance 2500 Watt Ribbon Element[/quote]

You leave your stove on all day long?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

KwH? That's energy. What does that have to do with power requirements for a certain device? Energy != Power.

Right. You take energy. Divide it by time. And you get power.

Simple, no?

[Colonel Olrik]

You leave your stove on all day long?

That's not the point.

The power requirement will be bigger than the power output, and the system will not function. You're confusing energy (KWh) with power (KW). You cannot ask for more power that it can be supplied.

[MKSheppard]

You leave your stove on all day long?

The stove was merely one example. Here in the states, we
have to HAVE our air conditioners running 12 x 7, in order
to actually LIVE in the summer.

Your typical A/C Compressor is rated at 1300 watts. My god,
there goes your freaking solar house.

If you want to run anything other than the A/C, you're gonna
have to limit yourself big time.

[Colonel Olrik]

KwH? That's energy. What does that have to do with power requirements for a certain device? Energy != Power.

Right. You take energy. Divide it by time. And you get power.

Simple, no?

I deleted this post because I wanted to make myself clear. See above post.

And DON'T teach me physics.