It's time to tell the House of Saud goodbye.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You leave your stove on all day long?

That's not the point.

The power requirement will be bigger than the power output, and the system will not function. You're confusing energy (KWh) with power (KW). You cannot ask for more power that it can be supplied.

That's why you have batteries. They store energy when you are producing more than you are using. They provide energy when you are using more than you are producing.

Otherwise the whole house would shut down at night.

Simple, no?

[MKSheppard]

And DON'T teach me physics.

For a troll, he sure has the real CSS' egomania.

[MKSheppard]

That's why you have batteries. They store energy when you are producing more than you are using. They provide energy when you are using more than you are producing.

Otherwise the whole house would shut down at night.

Simple, no?

Except batteries have to be replaced every few years, and that's a
big expense then and there, and what if you have rain for several
days? I recall when it rained for an entire week here in Washington.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

KwH? That's energy. What does that have to do with power requirements for a certain device? Energy != Power.

Right. You take energy. Divide it by time. And you get power.

Simple, no?

I deleted this post because I wanted to make myself clear. See above post.

I was wondering why I couldn't quote it.

BTW, I though you weren't allowed to delete posts unless they were offensive. You certainly aren't supposed to delete posts just cause you want to change what you said.

And DON'T teach me physics.

Can I teach you about batteries ... and common sense.

[MKSheppard]

Can I teach you about batteries ... and common sense.

Batteries are hideously expensive and have to be replaced every few
years, and woe be you if you have an overcast period longer than your
batteries' capacity.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

That's why you have batteries. They store energy when you are producing more than you are using. They provide energy when you are using more than you are producing.

Otherwise the whole house would shut down at night.

Simple, no?

Except batteries have to be replaced every few years, and that's a
big expense then and there, and what if you have rain for several
days? I recall when it rained for an entire week here in Washington.

So, your claiming the cost or replacement batteries is too high. And your proof is ...

While you providing evidence for that, tell me how long the batteries can last, and how often a house will go without sunlight for that long.

[MKSheppard]

So, your claiming the cost or replacement batteries is too high. And your proof is ...

The hybrid cars out now that use an entire bank of batteries for aux power.

While you providing evidence for that, tell me how long the batteries can last, and how often a house will go without sunlight for that long.

Don't need to. The first time your mythical solar powered house is dead
because Mother Nature is being a bitch and won't give you the sunlight
you so desperately need, while your neighbors are happily watching TV
on the grid......

You still haven't answered my question of how Solar power will be
of use to us in the States during the summer months...

[Colonel Olrik]

BTW, I though you weren't allowed to delete posts unless they were offensive. You certainly aren't supposed to delete posts just cause you want to change what you said.

I deleted it right after posting it. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. You certainly wasted no time in replying.

And DON'T teach me physics.

Can I teach you about batteries ... and common sense.

No. To both.

Batteries only work if you give them the time to recharge, and if they're not needed for too long a time. I'm yet to see a Solar powered house with no need for external electric supply. Solar in houses helps, and it's a good thing, but simply does not produce enough power.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

So, your claiming the cost or replacement batteries is too high. And your proof is ...

The hybrid cars out now that use an entire bank of batteries for aux power.

That's not evidence. You've given no numbers, not names, nothing was cited so I could double check.

It's just your opinion based on a mere fraction of what I gave in the Kevlar debate. Why is this acceptable when you do it, but not when I do it?

While you providing evidence for that, tell me how long the batteries can last, and how often a house will go without sunlight for that long.

Don't need to. The first time your mythical solar powered house is dead
because Mother Nature is being a bitch and won't give you the sunlight
you so desperately need, while your neighbors are happily watching TV
on the grid......

Lack of evidence = Concession Accepted.

Your arguement is based on the fear that something might happen, with no research to determine how likely it really is. Sort of like the Kevlar debate.

[MKSheppard]

Your arguement is based on the fear that something might happen, with no research to determine how likely it really is. Sort of like the Kevlar debate.

Except it happens. Hell, We just got off a three day period of rain, more rain,
more rain, and more rain here in Washington, DC. Care to explain how
your solar powered house can function during a rainy period?

As for the batteries:

http://www.mrsolar.com/backup/mrsolar.htm

12 x12 volt, 100 amp hour sealed battery $153.00 ea = $1836.00 total.

Wow, 20 to 63 lbs weight PER BATTERY...what a bitch to replace if
they short out....

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Can I teach you about batteries ... and common sense.

No. To both.

Batteries only work if you give them the time to recharge, and if they're not needed for too long a time. I'm yet to see a Solar powered house with no need for external electric supply. Solar in houses helps, and it's a good thing, but simply does not produce enough power.

Right, same deal as MKSheppard.

Give maximum capacity. Average time to fully charge. How often do you go without without sun for maximum capacity.

You can't attack a course of action cause something might happen. You have to show how probable it is.

After all, you could slip and break your neck every time you take a shower. Does that mean you never take showers?

BTW, most solar houses are still hooked up to the power grid. In fact, most produce so much power that they supply other houses.

[MKSheppard]

You can't attack a course of action cause something might happen. You have to show how probable it is.

My god, I'd be able to get more power than you.

http://www.weathertoday.net/weatherfact ... y_city.php

WASHINGTON NAT'L Airport,D.C.
Years Included in Average: 48
Sunny Days A Year: 96
Partly Cloudy Days A Year: 106
Cloudy Days A Year: 164

Forty Eight FUCKING YEARS of data shows that almost 2/3rds of the time
I cannot rely on Solar power, asshole.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Your arguement is based on the fear that something might happen, with no research to determine how likely it really is. Sort of like the Kevlar debate.

Except it happens. Hell, We just got off a three day period of rain, more rain,
more rain, and more rain here in Washington, DC. Care to explain how
your solar powered house can function during a rainy period?

Still no evidence. Just some ancedotes.

As for the batteries:

http://www.mrsolar.com/backup/mrsolar.htm

12 x12 volt, 100 amp hour sealed battery $153.00 ea = $1836.00 total.

Yeah, so? Do you have any idea how much the electrical work on the average house costs? For that matter, do you have any idea how much the average house costs? Do you have any idea how much life costs?

I spend more than that on household expenses every winter.

Wow, 20 to 63 lbs weight PER BATTERY...what a bitch to replace if
they short out....

You've got to be shitting me. 63 lbs is nothing. I use free wieghts heavier than that.

God damn, pick up a wieght once and a while. Get some exercise.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You can't attack a course of action cause something might happen. You have to show how probable it is.

WASHINGTON NAT'L Airport,D.C.
Years Included in Average: 48
Sunny Days A Year: 96
Partly Cloudy Days A Year: 106
Cloudy Days A Year: 164

Forty Eight FUCKING YEARS of data shows that almost 2/3rds of the time
I cannot rely on Solar power, asshole.

And how many sunny days / non-sunny day does solar power need? You missing half the numbers.

[MKSheppard]

God damn, pick up a wieght once and a while. Get some exercise.

Except when you have to carry it into the basement over and over and
over...that's over 700+ pounds that you're going to have to move.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

God damn, pick up a wieght once and a while. Get some exercise.

Except when you have to carry it into the basement over and over and
over...that's over 700+ pounds that you're going to have to move.

So? I move more than that evey time I do weights. And I only do 30 minues of weights a day.

BTW, I like how you snipped the rest. I guess I'll just accept you concesson and move on. No need to post 18 pages of requests for evidence when you refuse to give it.

[MKSheppard]

BTW, I like how you snipped the rest. I guess I'll just accept you concesson and move on. No need to post 18 pages of requests for evidence when you refuse to give it.

I provided evidence that 2/3rds of the time here in Washington, we cannot
rely on solar power, and you contested it, while you claim that most houses
produce more energy than they consume WITHOUT BACKING UP THAT CLAIM.

Yeah, so? Do you have any idea how much the electrical work on the average house costs?

$80 dollars to replace a single electrical outlet. Life is great when you
learn from a master electrician who works in the trade.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

BTW, I like how you snipped the rest. I guess I'll just accept you concesson and move on. No need to post 18 pages of requests for evidence when you refuse to give it.

I provided evidence that 2/3rds of the time here in Washington, we cannot
rely on solar power, and you contested it,

No, you provided the number of sunny to non-sunny days. You never proved that would make solar power non-effective. You have yet to prove the number of sunny days is too low for solar power to be effective.

In other words, you are going to have to do actual research.

[/quote]
while you claim that most houses
produce more energy than they consume WITHOUT BACKING UP THAT CLAIM.[/quote]

I showed that they can produce more energy than they consume. You never proved otherwise. You just kepted yelping about 2500 watt stoves.

Yeah, so? Do you have any idea how much the electrical work on the average house costs?

$80 dollars to replace a single electrical outlet. Life is great when you
learn from a master electrician who works in the trade.

I ask how must the electrical work in a house costs and you give me the cost of a single outlet?

[/quote]

I think this belongs to you.

[Admiral Piett]

Ok,couple of points here.
1)Price of solar panels is high,but essentially because they are not produced in sufficient large numbers.Once you start to produce a lot of them price will go down and they will become affordable.It was the same for cars,at the beginning they were too much expensive for the average person.Only when they started to roll off the production lines in sufficient large numbers they became affordable.The same is true for solar panels (and for nearly every other industrial good).
2)The idea of placing solar panels on your home is not to make it totally independent from the supply network.The idea is that you will send excess energy into the power supply network and you will take power from it when instead production is insufficient.This will become competitive as soon as point 1 is realized.At that point the investment will repay for itself after few years.

BTW solar panels work even when there is not much sunlight.Of course power production is proportionally low.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Good god how the posts pile up. A few erronious assumptions.
Hydrogen is NOT a fucking energy source you fucking morons, it is a method of storage and distribution! Wood and oil and running water excist in nature. They can be used to produce energy. PRODUCE! Hence the word SOURCE! Charged batteries, energiesed power lines, and free hydrogen do not excist in nature. They must be produced by a process that REQUIRES energy. There must be an energy INPUT, to STORE, or TRANSMIT, before it is USED! Why is this so difficult to grasp?

The Hindenburg burned because the outer skin was made of celuloid plastic, one of the principal ingredients of gunpowder! (nitrocellulose)
The hydrogen was burned up or DISSIPATED in seconds.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

How can you replicate in a fast bredeer the behaviour of a RBMK? They are quite different animals.Different coolants,different moderators (or lack of in one case) different fuels etc.It does not make sense to me.

I know. But I recall quite strongly hearing that somewhere; I'll try to get an answer for you in a few days (But it is a holiday weekend over here).

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Ok,couple of points here.
1)Price of solar panels is high,but essentially because they are not produced in sufficient large numbers.Once you start to produce a lot of them price will go down and they will become affordable.It was the same for cars,at the beginning they were too much expensive for the average person.Only when they started to roll off the production lines in sufficient large numbers they became affordable.The same is true for solar panels (and for nearly every other industrial good).
2)The idea of placing solar panels on your home is not to make it totally independent from the supply network.The idea is that you will send excess energy into the power supply network and you will take power from it when instead production is insufficient.This will become competitive as soon as point 1 is realized.At that point the investment will repay for itself after few years.

BTW solar panels work even when there is not much sunlight.Of course power production is proportionally low.

You've got it, 100%. I read a recent British study that said they will pay for themselves in about 20 years. Not bad for panels that are designed to last 25 years.

BTW, that figure was cut to 10 years if you bought the latest energy efficient appliances to go with the Solar Panels. But you really should do that anyway.

[TrailerParkJawa]

You've got it, 100%. I read a recent British study that said they will pay for themselves in about 20 years. Not bad for panels that are designed to last 25 years.

BTW, that figure was cut to 10 years if you bought the latest energy efficient appliances to go with the Solar Panels. But you really should do that anyway.

Even 10 years is too long of a time frame for the average person to invest in solar for their home. I dont have 20 grand to plop down on my house just to save a little bit on the electric bill. It makes more sense to pay down my mortage by 20 grand instead.

For solar to become common place in home installs its gonna have to be heavily subsidized.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You've got it, 100%. I read a recent British study that said they will pay for themselves in about 20 years. Not bad for panels that are designed to last 25 years.

BTW, that figure was cut to 10 years if you bought the latest energy efficient appliances to go with the Solar Panels. But you really should do that anyway.

Even 10 years is too long of a time frame for the average person to invest in solar for their home. I dont have 20 grand to plop down on my house just to save a little bit on the electric bill. It makes more sense to pay down my mortage by 20 grand instead.

For solar to become common place in home installs its gonna have to be heavily subsidized.

But if you build a house that was designed from the ground up with solar and geothermal in mind it takes even less. 7 to 8 years. I've lived where I currently live for longer than that. So have most people I know. I doubt the average person moves more than once a decade.

[MKSheppard]

You've got it, 100%. I read a recent British study that said they will pay for themselves in about 20 years. Not bad for panels that are designed to last 25 years.

BTW, that figure was cut to 10 years if you bought the latest energy efficient appliances to go with the Solar Panels. But you really should do that anyway.

More like 100 years.

You forget that solar panels are made the same way computer chips are
made, through PHOTOETCHING, a very energy intensive process that
requires lots and lots of industrial waste too.