[News] Alleged incursion by Turkey

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-02-01 05:02am

Faram wrote:Baltic Sea!!???

Black Sea is more like it I think.

Damnit, I knew I screwed something up there.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-01 05:03am

Duchess of Zeon could you be even a bigger ass? The complaint between the Greek and Turkish air-space has been an ongoing issue for DECADES, one that Greece even offered to go to the international court to settle but Turkey refused. Basically it breaks down to the the interpretation of UN law that says that a countries' air space extends out to see for a set given distance from the coast.

Turkey claims that this is from the mainland, Greece states that since it has an arche-pego of 1000 islands in the Agean, and most of the larger inhabitant ones lie closer to Turkey, then the air space should cover those islands too since they are apart of Greek teritory (a fact that Air traffic control across Europe and the UN agree). Turkey though fails to recognising as this being true, despite the numerouse attempts of the Greek authorities to settle this in court once and for all.

The report is true, do a search on the BBC news archives and you will find dozen's of them, they happen all the time, and usually the Turkish jets get the hell out of dodge before the Greek one's show up, although there have been two shoot downs, 94 and 96.

Turkish disrespect for international law aside, why the fuck did it take 20 odd something posts before someone actually spoke the truth? Oh and Duchess of generalisations, I take it you know many blonde hair and blue eyed Turks do you? Moron.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-02-01 05:06am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: That professor was probably another of those Hellenics. I should have Big Steve post his conversation he had with one once; it's really quite amusing. They still want "Constantinople" back, you know.

Hrm... sounds like someone needs to raid Greece with a certain They Might Be Giants song... any person who's watched Tiny Toons as a kid knows full well that it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. The Greeks would do well to learn it.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-01 05:11am

Faram wrote:
Crayz9000 wrote: As for their navy, much of it is based in the Baltic Sea, and must travel through the Bosporus.
Baltic Sea!!???

Black Sea is more like it I think.

Its possibul to travel from the Baltic to the Black sea via the Russian canal and river system. Though I don't think ships bigger then around 1000 tons can fit. Starting from St. Petersburg you travel about half way up the Baltic to white sea canal, then taken another which connects into the Volga via several other lakes and rivers. The Volga has a canal to the Don just south of Volgograd and the Don brings you to the Black sea.

You can then pass though the Turkish straights in the Aegean, the Bosporus only refers to the link between the Black sea and Sea of Marmara.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-01 05:21am

Crown wrote:Duchess of Zeon could you be even a bigger ass? The complaint between the Greek and Turkish air-space has been an ongoing issue for DECADES, one that Greece even offered to go to the international court to settle but Turkey refused. Basically it breaks down to the the interpretation of UN law that says that a countries' air space extends out to see for a set given distance from the coast.

Turkey claims that this is from the mainland, Greece states that since it has an arche-pego of 1000 islands in the Agean, and most of the larger inhabitant ones lie closer to Turkey, then the air space should cover those islands too since they are apart of Greek teritory (a fact that Air traffic control across Europe and the UN agree). Turkey though fails to recognising as this being true, despite the numerouse attempts of the Greek authorities to settle this in court once and for all.

The report is true, do a search on the BBC news archives and you will find dozen's of them, they happen all the time, and usually the Turkish jets get the hell out of dodge before the Greek one's show up, although there have been two shoot downs, 94 and 96.

Turkish disrespect for international law aside, why the fuck did it take 20 odd something posts before someone actually spoke the truth? Oh and Duchess of generalisations, I take it you know many blonde hair and blue eyed Turks do you? Moron.

Quite a few other nations are arguing about air space and EEZ's and where they start from. The biggest example being every single nation bordering the South China Sea. International law is only so if the parties agree to accept it. Just because Europe, which like to argue Turkey is not a part of it, says something is law doesn't make it so.

An Greek jets are well known for entering Turkish airspace as well along with buzzing Turkish warships at sometimes supersonic speeds. Not a good thing to do, one day there going to damage one and the next time around the ships going to bring them down.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-01 05:22am

Saved you all the trouble it took me two seconds to find ONE article of this happening from a <sarcasm>non biased news service</sarcasm> just so as I don't apear to be making up shit. This is from 98, unfortunately the BBC doesn't tend to keep anything beyond that date, although I do remember reading more a few months ago. This shit happens all the time.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-01 05:31am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Quite a few other nations are arguing about air space and EEZ's and where they start from. The biggest example being every single nation bordering the South China Sea. International law is only so if the parties agree to accept it. Just because Europe, which like to argue Turkey is not a part of it, says something is law doesn't make it so.

And the fact that Turkey flat out refuses to go to the international court and solve this issue once and for all means nothing to you? So what 'if other countries do it'? Here we have a clear and cut case of one party flat out refusing to solve this issue once and for all, they know they are in the wrong, they just wish to avoid being told so unequivocally.

Sea Skimmer wrote:An Greek jets are well known for entering Turkish airspace as well along with buzzing Turkish warships at sometimes supersonic speeds. Not a good thing to do, one day there going to damage one and the next time around the ships going to bring them down.

Err, strange but Greek jets are hardly 'well known' for entering Turkish air space, unless you define Turkish air space as the exact opposite of what it is defined as under the interpretation of international law. I would also like to know where exactly this 'buzzing' takes place.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-01 06:18am

Crown wrote:
And the fact that Turkey flat out refuses to go to the international court and solve this issue once and for all means nothing to you? So what 'if other countries do it'? Here we have a clear and cut case of one party flat out refusing to solve this issue once and for all, they know they are in the wrong, they just wish to avoid being told so unequivocally.

I consider the international court a useless body, so no I don't see a problem with Turkey ignoring it. Surrendering your sovereignty to such a body is a big mistake. An illegal one of the US, of that I'm glad. Creating various courts is Europe's way to have a say in things despite there piss poor militaries and inability to deploy them.

Err, strange but Greek jets are hardly 'well known' for entering Turkish air space, unless you define Turkish air space as the exact opposite of what it is defined as under the interpretation of international law. I would also like to know where exactly this 'buzzing' takes place.

Generally around Cyprus where both sides keep naval units and aircraft in considerabul numbers.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-01 07:17am

Sea Skimmer wrote:I consider the international court a useless body, so no I don't see a problem with Turkey ignoring it. Surrendering your sovereignty to such a body is a big mistake. An illegal one of the US, of that I'm glad. Creating various courts is Europe's way to have a say in things despite there piss poor militaries and inability to deploy them.

So you do not recognise the legitamy of the International Court of Justice even though your government does? Well then I guess we should stop this discussion right here, since it would turn into a Darkstar-ess debate over legitamy. But I will point out that one party in this issue has repeatedly offered to go to the ICJ and settle this matter peacfully for decades, and one chooses not to. I will let you decide on the morality of both from that.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-02-01 07:21am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Crown wrote:
And the fact that Turkey flat out refuses to go to the international court and solve this issue once and for all means nothing to you? So what 'if other countries do it'? Here we have a clear and cut case of one party flat out refusing to solve this issue once and for all, they know they are in the wrong, they just wish to avoid being told so unequivocally.
I consider the international court a useless body, so no I don't see a problem with Turkey ignoring it. Surrendering your sovereignty to such a body is a big mistake. An illegal one of the US, of that I'm glad. Creating various courts is Europe's way to have a say in things despite there piss poor militaries and inability to deploy them.

With people like you and Marina around its no wonder that bad shit happens on this planet. You do sometimes lack forsight.