NFL 2015 Offseason

[TheHammer]

Based on this, I would imagine.

It is quite fishy, even if he hasn't been convicted of a crime.

If that was all you were going to post then you needn't have bothered. Obviously I've done my own baseline search. What i mean is, from that, what has lead to the conclusion that he is guilty of rape?

And sure, anytime someone is accused of rape it's "fishy" but I would hope there were some evidence before we declare someone guilty, and in this case there is nothing to support the accuser other than her story (which changed multiple times) vs Winston's (which was very consistent).

[TheHammer]

And on other news, Chris Borland retires over health concerns. It's his choice and I understand it, but damn this offseason has been bleak for the Red and Gold...

[Thanas]

Obviously I've done my own baseline search. What i mean is, from that, what has lead to the conclusion that he is guilty of rape?

Apparently not, because I can't see how one can come to that conclusion after reading the slate articles on the subject or the deadspin outline into how FSU and the police covered it up. The whole thing stinks.

[TheHammer]

I've seen those articles. However whether or not the police botched the investigation, or intentionally covered up fearing it might be true doesn't change the underlying facts that when you get down to it the evidence doesn't support a rape charge.

This is a more thorough look at the evidence than is presented in either the slate or deadspin articles.

And Here is another

It seems there is a lot of bias in articles based on who wrote them and if they had an agenda, so lets boil this down to the facts and debate from there shall we?

There is no dispute they had sex. The only dispute is whether or not it was consensual.

Essentially, her story is that she was "drugged" or "incapacitated" somehow and ended up with Winston. A position not supported by toxicology results showing she was well below the legal limit of being "legally drunk" for driving purposes, and tested negative for drugs. Her physical examination doesn't support that she was held down. Further, she states she didn't know how she got in the cab, but one of her friends that she was there with showed her a text message and was told by that friend "Ok you can go". Winston's friends contradict her story that one of them tried to "stop Winston" and testify that the sexual encounter was consensual - backing Winston's side of events.

So, in short,

Her story is contradicted by her friends, Winston's friends, toxicology results, and physical examination. And her story is the only "evidence" if you will that a rape occurred.

Do you care to dispute any of that?

[Elfdart]

Yes but as Big Ben proved rape allegations < talent.

I dunno, Pavement Face was already good in the NFL before the hastily covered up rape accusations while Winston was good enough in college to win a Heisman Trophy. And as we all know quite well, no Heisman winner has ever done anything immoral on or off the field.
Plus, look at all the wonderful things Winston has done. I think he'll fit right in at Tampa.
But why should I care? I'm a Green Bay fan now and no Green Bay player has ever done anything the least untoward, let alone to a woman.

Or when Mossy Cade raped his own aunt.

[Thanas]

Schedules got released and as usual, Ravens get screwed.

5 of first 7 on the road.
Two separate six-hour flights to the Bay Area.
@Pitt the week Bell returns.
@Den to open the season for the second time in three years.
All three prime-time road games are non-flexible, while both prime-time home games are flexible

Week 1, Sept. 13: at Denver (4:25 p.m.)
Week 2, Sept. 20: at Oakland (4:05 p.m.)
Week 3, Sept. 27: Cincinnati (1 p.m.)
Week 4, Oct. 1: at Pittsburgh (8:25 p.m., Thursday)
Week 5, Oct. 11: Cleveland (1 p.m.)
Week 6, Oct. 18: at San Francisco (4:25 p.m.)
Week 7, Oct. 26: at Arizona (8:30 p.m., Monday)
Week 8, Nov. 1: San Diego (1 p.m.)
Week 9, Nov. 8: BYE
Week 10, Nov. 15: Jacksonville (1 p.m.)
Week 11, Nov. 22: St. Louis (1 p.m.)
Week 12, Nov. 30: at Cleveland (8:30 p.m., Monday)
Week 13, Dec. 6: at Miami (1 p.m.)
Week 14, Dec. 13: Seattle (8:30 p.m., Sunday)
Week 15, Dec. 20: Kansas City (1 p.m.)
Week 16, Dec. 27: Pittsburgh (8:30 p.m., Sunday)
Week 17, Jan. 3: at Cincinnati (1 p.m.)

Ugh.

[Elfdart]

You get three of the last four at home. Quit crying.

[Thanas]

Oh yeah, because the first half is sooo easy. If we get at .500 by that time I'd be happy.

[Alferd Packer]

I'm honestly surprised they don't count Arizona and Denver as West Coast games and schedule accordingly for East Coast opponents playing the AFC and NFC West.

Well, Arizona, anyway. Denver's like a 4 hour flight.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't worry, Thanas. You guys only have the 11th hardest schedule in the league this year (based on 2014 records). If it makes you feel any better, all three of your division-mates have more difficult schedules, with the Steelers and Bengals in particularly getting boned.

Looking at that list, look at the Colts to have a huge regular season. Not only have they retooled and improved their roster in a lot of places, but they have the second-easiest schedule this season. I can see them getting 13 or even 14 wins, and then having a disappointing post-season showing because everyone overrated them for beating up bad teams all year.

[Thanas]

Woohooo, draft day.

[Thanas]

Why the heck are so many teams passing on Leonard Williams?

[Thanas]

...and I guess the Jets are indeed trading Wilkerson.

[Thanas]

So we picked up Perriman. God, I am so scared by his drops, but I am so intrigued by a guy running 4.19-4.25 at 6'2. I hope he is not Mark Clayton 2.0.

[GuppyShark]

Every off-season since I started following this sport, the Falcons have been projected to draft a pass rusher in the first round.

This year, the Falcons took a pass rusher in the first round.

I am gobsmacked and delighted.

[Thanas]

I love our draft so much I can't even begin to put it into words.

[Flagg]

Has El Rapist Fantastico Del Heisman from FSU been picked yet?

EDIT: AHAHAHAHAHA! Man I bailed on the Buccaneers just in time, didn't I? Anyone remember that disgusting scene with awesome payoff from 'Kill Bill: Volume 1'? "We're the Bucs... And we're here to fuck! But only if you're barely conscious!"

Dodged a bullet by not going for the Seacocks and the worst play call in SB history ( ) and choosing to be a Packers fan. Because if you're ain't a packer, you's gettin' packed!

[Flagg]

Holy shit, Bucs second pick is from Penn State! "PR? We don't need no fucking PR! We just need to fill 3/5 of these seats!"

[Elfdart]

This is interesting: This morning, the official NFL site had a page devoted to the Los Angeles Rams. The page has since been taken down.

[Elfdart]

Holy shit, Bucs second pick is from Penn State! "PR? We don't need no fucking PR! We just need to fill 3/5 of these seats!"

I hear O.J. Simpson is getting a tryout, too.

[Flagg]

Holy shit, Bucs second pick is from Penn State! "PR? We don't need no fucking PR! We just need to fill 3/5 of these seats!"

I hear O.J. Simpson is getting a tryout, too.

I heard they were 70/30 for Hernandez if there had been an acquittal.

[TheHammer]

Has El Rapist Fantastico Del Heisman from FSU been picked yet?

Again, the evidence in that case is leaning towards her being a lying gold-digger than it is towards him being a rapist. But why let facts get in the way of your narrative?

[Thanas]

Has El Rapist Fantastico Del Heisman from FSU been picked yet?

Again, the evidence in that case is leaning towards her being a lying gold-digger than it is towards him being a rapist.

Only in your mind.

[Thanas]

Patriots are indeed cheaters.

From the Wells report on Deflategate:

VIII. Conclusions Regarding the Game Balls Used by the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game

Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New
England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules. In particular, we conclude that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally and John Jastremski participated in a deliberate plan to circumvent the rules by releasing air from Patriots game balls after the examination of the footballs by NFL game officials at the AFC Championship Game. We believe that McNally and Jastremski were aware that the inflation level of the Patriots game balls following pre-game inspection by the game officials would be approximately 12.5 psi and planned for McNally to deflate the balls below that level following the pre-game inspection using a needle provided by Jastremski. Based on the evidence, we also have concluded that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls.

[...]
Our conclusion that it is more probable than not that McNally and Jastremski participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were tested by the game officials is significantly influenced by the substantial number of communications and events consistent with such a finding, including that the same person (McNally) referred to himself as the “deflator” and stated that he was “not going to espn……..yet,” was involved in a series of communications about his impact on the inflation-level of Patriots game balls and using a “needle” surrounded by cash and sneakers (when his legitimate responsibilities as a locker room attendant did not involve the preparation, inflation or deflation of footballs), violated standard pre-game procedure by removing the game balls from the Officials Locker Room without permission of the game officials, brought the game balls into a bathroom before the game (for a period long enough to deflate them), and received valuable items autographed by Tom Brady the week before the AFC Championship Game.

Similarly, the evidence establishes that John Jastremski knew that McNally had referred to himself as the “deflator” and stated that he was “not going to espn……..yet,” was involved personally in a series of communications with McNally about the inflation and deflation of footballs using a “needle” and providing McNally with a “needle,” was involved in providing McNally with items of value, and had himself received a particularly valuable autograph from Brady earlier in the season. In addition, Jastremski spoke with McNally almost immediately when suspicions first arose (speaking by telephone three times in the hours after the game for a total of 37 minutes and 11 seconds) and
communicated with Brady by telephone or text message with significantly increased frequency in the following days, as described below.

[...]
Evidence of Brady‟s awareness appears in text communications between McNally and Jastremski. For example, in text messages exchanged with McNally in October 2014 discussing Brady‟s unhappiness with the inflation level of Patriots game balls, Jastremski told McNally that “[h]e actually brought you up” and “said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done.”

Moreover, taking the text messages as a whole, Brady is a constant reference point in the discussions between McNally and Jastremski about inflation, deflation, needles and
items to be received by McNally. In response to Jastremski‟s offers of sneakers and clothing, for example, McNally identifies Brady as the catalyst for those offers (“Tom must really be working your balls hard this week”; “Tom must really be on you”).

Additional evidence of Brady‟s awareness includes a material increase in the frequency of telephone and text communications between Brady and Jastremski shortly after
suspicions of ball tampering became public on January 19 suggests that Brady was closely monitoring Jastremski. After not communicating by telephone or text for more than six months (according to data retrieved from Jastremski‟s cell phone), Brady and Jastremski spoke twice by telephone on January 19 (calls lasting a total of 25 minutes and 2 seconds), twice on January 20 (calls lasting a total of 9 minutes and 55 seconds) and twice on January 21 (calls lasting a total of 20 minutes and 52 seconds) before Jastremski surrendered his cell phone to the Patriots later that day for forensic imaging. These calls included conversations relatively early during the mornings of January 19 (7:26 a.m. for 13 minutes and 4 seconds), January 20 (8:22 a.m. for 6 minutes and 21 seconds) and January 21 (7:38 a.m. for 13 minutes and 47 seconds). Brady also
took the unprecedented step of inviting Jastremski to the QB room in Gillette Stadium on January 19 for the first and only time that Jastremski can recall during his twenty-year career with the Patriots, and Brady sent Jastremski text messages seemingly designed to calm Jastremski (“You good Jonny boy?”; “You doing good?”). For his part, Jastremski sent Brady text messages confirming that he was okay (“Still nervous; so far so good though”) and cautioning Brady about questioning (“FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He‟s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it‟s unrealistic you did it yourself...”).

In addition, we believe it is unlikely that an equipment assistant and a locker room attendant would deflate game balls without Brady‟s knowledge and approval. [...]As discussed above, Brady‟s refusal to provide us with his own emails, text messages and phone records on relevant topics, in response to our narrowly tailored requests, limited the evidence available for our review and analysis.

[/quote]

There is more here, but the evidence is clear cut.

[TheHammer]

Has El Rapist Fantastico Del Heisman from FSU been picked yet?

Again, the evidence in that case is leaning towards her being a lying gold-digger than it is towards him being a rapist.

Only in your mind.

That is the only logical conclusion to be drawn by any objective view of the evidence.

You didn't respond to this before, so I'll go ahead and copy/quote it from early in the thread:

I've seen those articles. However whether or not the police botched the investigation, or intentionally covered up fearing it might be true doesn't change the underlying facts that when you get down to it the evidence doesn't support a rape charge.

This is a more thorough look at the evidence than is presented in either the slate or deadspin articles.

And Here is another

It seems there is a lot of bias in articles based on who wrote them and if they had an agenda, so lets boil this down to the facts and debate from there shall we?

There is no dispute they had sex. The only dispute is whether or not it was consensual.

Essentially, her story is that she was "drugged" or "incapacitated" somehow and ended up with Winston. A position not supported by toxicology results showing she was well below the legal limit of being "legally drunk" for driving purposes, and tested negative for drugs. Her physical examination doesn't support that she was held down. Further, she states she didn't know how she got in the cab, but one of her friends that she was there with showed her a text message and was told by that friend "Ok you can go". Winston's friends contradict her story that one of them tried to "stop Winston" and testify that the sexual encounter was consensual - backing Winston's side of events.

So, in short,

Her story is contradicted by her friends, Winston's friends, toxicology results, and physical examination. And her story is the only "evidence" if you will that a rape occurred.

Do you care to dispute any of that?